I am incredibly excited about this week’s episode for several reasons. First, today’s interview is with Hans Van Dale, the winemaker who took over the reins from Lynn Penner-Ash at Dusky Goose. His story and background are fascinating.
I got the opportunity to sit down with Hans Van Dale from Dusky Goose. This was a special interview because Dusky holds a unique place in my heart.
Right before the pandemic, I was tagged in a post about Dusky Goose, which started my awareness of the winery. Not long after that, I was at Tavern on Kruse, and there was a sales rep for Dusky Goose bringing in the wines for the staff to taste. I struck up a conversation because that’s what you do while sitting at the bar. Come to find out, the sales rep was Meghan, and that night was the first time I tasted the Pinots from Dusky Goose. I got Meghan’s card, and we emailed back and forth a couple of times. She also told me about a wine dinner at Five Spice in March 2020.
In February 2020, for my birthday, I visited the tasting room where Pamela was working. Her storytelling made me fall head over hills. I went home with several bottles during that visit. Well, as you can predict, the Five Spice dinner never happened.
Back in November of last year, 2022, Dusky Goose was at Salud, and you wouldn’t believe who was there, Meghan. It had been two years since we had seen one another, and she remembered who I was. It was terrific, and then to top it off, the new winemaker, Hans, was there as well. So I got to catch up with Meghan and speak with Hans for the first time.
In case you don’t know, Lynn Penner-Ash made the wine for Dusky Goose, and it was announced in the summer of 2021 Hans would take over winemaking duties for the winery. Let me tell you, there is a great backstory with Hans, his wife, and Lynn Penner-Ash. You have to listen to the podcast to get those details, sorry!
After the interview, I had the chance to catch up with Tancis, who is now also working at Dusky Goose. I first met her at Alexana. I adore catching up with people to hear about new chapters in their life.
A little behind the scenes for you about this episode. First, if you watch the YouTube video, you will notice only one camera angle instead of the typical three. This is because, as I was setting up, I messed up one of the tripod holders, which meant I was down to two cameras. Not a problem! I repositioned the camera on Hans to make it look like it was more of a front angle. Everything worked great! When I got home, though, I tried to crop the angle, so my bald head wasn’t so prominent, but it wasn’t happening.
Transcription of my podcast interview with winemaker Hans Van Dale of Dusky Goose Winery[00:00:00] A.J. Weinzettel: Cheers to another episode of a Wine Notes podcast. I’m your guide AJ Wine Dule on this journey of stories showcasing the people behind the wonderful world of wine where we dive into conversations ranging from PIR viticulture to favorite music superpowers, and more. Please enjoy this episode of the Wino. [00:00:23] A.J. Weinzettel: Hans, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I really appreciate your time. It’s my pleasure. Yeah, it’s, uh, kind of rainy and yucky and nasty out there today. It sure is [00:00:33] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Typical, uh, Oregon winters . [00:00:35] A.J. Weinzettel: That is true. Uh, can I pour a little bit of wine to kind of start off with? Please do. Okay. You know, so this, you know, I always kind of start off with a blind wine to, uh, kind of get things moving forward. [00:00:47] A.J. Weinzettel: You can say something about it if you want to. Sure. It’s totally up to you, zero pressure, uh, to comment or, or anything. So cool. And then at the end I will reveal what it is and, uh, you know, we’ll have a little bit of fun with it. Sounds [00:01:03] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: good. All right. Well definitely notice off, right off the bat some, uh, deep color. [00:01:09] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: So I’m not sure we’re in, uh, pinot country with this wine. Maybe, maybe not . Yeah, definitely some. Dark fruit flavors, rich Night Oak. Very present. Nicely integrated, but certainly present. Right. [00:01:42] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Yeah. Delicious. Very good. Thank you for sharing. [00:01:45] A.J. Weinzettel: Of course. Yes. Um. and it’s always fun to, to share. I try to find something that might relate to you a little bit. Mm-hmm. . So we’ll see if I hit the nail on, on the head [00:01:56] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: or not. Well, this definitely strikes me as a new world, you know, Bordeaux style wine. Um, have a lot of experience with those from my days down in California in, if I were to hazard a guess, there is a sort of like a olive top, no note on there. [00:02:18] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Uh, makes me think, uh, Washington Bordea rather than California Bordeaux. But [00:02:24] A.J. Weinzettel: no, that, that’s fair. Yeah, that’s fair. All right, well, we’ll see what it is Yeah. Here in just a little bit. Um, I know we talked about this a little bit, you know, while I was setting up mm-hmm. , but you moved from California to Oregon. [00:02:36] A.J. Weinzettel: in 2016 and from our talks earlier, it sounds like you’re still kind of adjusting to the, um, the Oregon rains [00:02:43] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: quite a bit. Yeah, this is true. A uh, the, the California sunshine still appeals to me very much, but, um, , everything else about Oregon is, is just lovely. [00:02:55] A.J. Weinzettel: It is, it is. It is absolutely lovely. And you know, growing up in California, you know, you wanted to, if I remember correctly, you wanted to kind of be a chef. [00:03:02] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. Right. That was your passion. And I’m just kind of curious, why did that, that fizzle away and then do you still kind of dabble in that area a little bit these days? Yeah, so [00:03:12] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: when I was little, I. . I loved food. I loved going out to eat. Um, it was always, you know, a big treat in our family to go out. And when I was little, um, I stopped asking for, you know, birthday parties. [00:03:25] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Instead, I wanted to go out and, uh, just go to a fancy meal somewhere locally. Um, and in Santa Cruz there’s. No shortage of knight’s restaurants, but it isn’t the hotbed of, you know, col culinary exploration as some of the surrounding areas. So we started branching out and going into, um, San Francisco as well, which was really eye-opening for me and a ton of fun. [00:03:48] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And then my, um, my family encouraged me to help in the kitchen, which was a lot of fun. So from a really early age, loved cooking, loved food. When I got sort of, High school age, you know, other things took, uh, more of my interest, sports and girls and that sort of thing, of course. So I, um, sort of lost the passion then, but never went away entirely. [00:04:14] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And I, uh, continued to, I. Liked to go out to eat when I was down in San Diego, getting my degree, um, as much as my budget would allow. And then, um, after college I had the opportunity to work harvest at Napa. And I, it was sort of just like a stop gap, you know, whim type type of decision. But I thought it would be cool to, uh, you know, see how wine was made and immerse myself in the wine and food. [00:04:48] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: You know, epicenter of the US Really? Yeah. And, and [00:04:52] A.J. Weinzettel: so, and, and Portland, it’s so well known for all of its, you know, food and restaurants or whatever. Do you ever, you know, dabble in that? Yeah, [00:04:59] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: we, I don’t get out as much as I’d like to. I’ve got a one-year-old and a three-year-old that keep me pretty tied down to home base, but Right. [00:05:06] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Um, we do get out, um, you know, occasionally and I, the dining scene in Portland is fantastic. There’s so much diversity, you know, it’s not just. Classic French or Italian, you know, there’s a bit of everything, which I love, you know? Yeah. Especially, uh, you know, Asian flavors really appeal to me, so sushi, ramen, that sort of [00:05:27] A.J. Weinzettel: thing. [00:05:27] A.J. Weinzettel: That’s, that’s awesome. Uh, and I assume that you still probably dabble a little bit, you know, in your current kitchen with, with your family right now, right? [00:05:34] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Yeah, definitely. I definitely do the bulk of the cooking in, in the house. My wife is a fantastic cook as well, but I just have a, a bit more enthusiasm for it. [00:05:44] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: So, um, the, uh, the cookbook collection is getting a little outta hand and the, um, the wife wishes I would, I. , you know, coal, some of the lesser red ones, but ugh, that’ll, that’ll never happen. No, [00:05:58] A.J. Weinzettel: no. You, you gotta hold onto all of those. Yeah, yeah, most definitely. Um, speaking of food, this past summer, uh, dusky Goose held their, like 20th anniversary, like big celebratory dinner, and I saw that. [00:06:11] A.J. Weinzettel: I was sad that I, there was just no way I could [00:06:14] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: come. Yeah, it was a great time. [00:06:16] A.J. Weinzettel: I, I could imagine. , you know, how, how special was it to share the spotlight, you know, with Lynn and, you know, because she is kinda one of those defining faces of, of organ [00:06:27] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: wine. Yeah, very much so. I’ve been very fortunate to be sort of brought into Lynn’s orbit over the years, um, through Dusky Goose and my wife who works for Penner Ash. [00:06:40] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Um, and it was just great, you know, to be a part of, uh, dusky Goose’s. transition into me taking over the wine making and uh, just being able to, you know, share the stage and hear the stories that she and John have shared over the years. They have such an amazing rapport. And then that coupled with, um, wines going all the way back to our debut vintage 2002 and Delicious Food from Tornante and we had oysters and charcuterie paella. [00:07:09] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: It was, it was fantastic. [00:07:11] A.J. Weinzettel: I was, I was so jealous and I saw the pictures and. I did , I tell you what, the, the schedule, right? Yeah. Where does it have to get in the way so much? [00:07:20] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Yeah. Well, there’s only so many, uh, events one can attend, and I think that we were, you know, one of a handful of really appealing events on that, on that exact day, so, [00:07:33] A.J. Weinzettel: yeah. [00:07:33] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, most definitely. Um, and I can only imagine, I mean, the, like, the legacy that Lynn Pinner has already, you know, kind of set. , you know? And so both you and your wife are following in those footsteps. Mm-hmm. , do you ever kinda like pinch yourself and wonder, is this, is this real, is this really [00:07:53] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: happening? I mean it, well, we’re, we’re certainly very grateful to her in trusting, you know, her legacy projects with us and, you know, we don’t wanna disappoint her in any way and Right. [00:08:05] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And fortunately we still have her ear and she. , you know, very much willing to help in, uh, however she can, whether it’s, you know, helping with, uh, vineyard decisions, um, yeah. Or the blending process, which she still is, uh, a big part of, uh, for Dusky Goose in particular. [00:08:26] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. And, and so your, your journey to kind of dusky Goose, I mean, you were at, uh, Carlton Winemaker Studio for a period of time with Andrew Rich. [00:08:35] A.J. Weinzettel: That’s. . And um, and the reason that you’re up here in an organ is because your wife was an intern at, um, oh my gosh. I’m blanking off The Bethel Heights. Bethel Heights, yes. Yes. And so, you know, talk to Ben Castell, you know, hey, if anything comes up, you know, let me know. and eventually in, you know, a position came open, you know, at, at Pinash. [00:08:57] A.J. Weinzettel: Yep. And so that’s kind of what brought you up here into Oregon. And during that time when you were at Andrew Ridge, you know, you got to kind of taste in, you know, some of the, the round tables with your wife and Lynn Pinash. It’s just, uh, it’s absolutely all inspiring and. All I can say is wow. I mean, just, I, I can’t even imagine being in your [00:09:20] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: shoes. [00:09:20] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Yeah, I was incredibly lucky. Um, you know, my wife is an amazing winemaker and she, in 2010 had never held a full-time position at a winery before, but had done a lot of harvest abroad and domestically, and she’s a, a native Oregonian and always, um, really wanted to wind up in the Willamette Valley. , she fell in love with the, the Bethel Heights wines. [00:09:47] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: The whole Castile family told Ben, like, if ever uh, assistant winemaker position comes, I’ll be here right in a moment. And the job never materialized. And Lynn had just, um, finalized the deal with Jackson family and part of the deal was she got to pick out her successor. So she started talking to her most trusted, uh, winemaker friends in the valley. [00:10:10] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And Ben said, I’m, I’m loathed to. This person up, but she’s been, you know, telling me for years that she wants to get up here. Right. And we had been in, I had been in Napa for, uh, 10 years at that point. My wife had been there for five and we loved. , our community, the wines, everything. But we really had been jonesing to get up to the, to the Willamette Valley for a long time. [00:10:37] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: So when the, we jumped at the opportunity. Right. And, uh, I was incredibly fortunate that I was able to find a position with, um, Andrew Rich so that I didn’t, you know, sit unemployed for a while. Right. Um, but that was also, thanks to, to Lynn. Uh, Andrew had just lost his assistant winemaker who had been working with him for I think, uh, 13 years or something. [00:11:02] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Wow. And he reached out to Lynn and said, Hey, do you know of anybody good available? And she said, well, as it happens, I don’t know this person, but you should talk to him. I know he is coming up to the valley and I know he is got a winemaking background. , that was, that, that worked out. That’s, [00:11:16] A.J. Weinzettel: that is absolutely amazing how life just kind of happens that way. [00:11:20] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. Yeah. It, it really is. [00:11:22] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And I honestly, I could not have asked for a better place to cut my teeth in the Willamette Valley than the Carton winemaker studio. There’s so many amazing winemakers there. So, not only did I get to work with Andrew, who’s, who’s incredible, but I got to see the line making of so many other folks, you know, you [00:11:38] A.J. Weinzettel: did. [00:11:38] A.J. Weinzettel: And kind of on that, on that topic. and working with so many different people, you know? Um, again, before the, before, you know, we started recording, we were talking about Isabel. Mm-hmm. . I’m just, I’m just kind of curious. Did you learn any, like [00:11:54] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Absolutely. Yeah. No. Everyone is so giving with their knowledge and time. [00:11:58] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Um, Andrew Rich and Isabel shared a large, uh, one of the fermentation decks at the studio. So we were, you know, bumping into each other constantly during harvest. And, you know, once I had a pretty. , my mind wrapped around Andrew’s process. Then it was time to, you know, absorb what I could from everybody else there and right. [00:12:20] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Isabel is, she’s a, a fantastic teacher and she’s famous for her daily tastings of all the fermentors and she’s. You know, willing, she does that with her team, obviously, but then she’s, uh, happy to bring in whoever else wants to join them. So sitting in on those tastings and just learning her philosophy and seeing her at winemaking has been incredible. [00:12:42] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And I, I love her wines. [00:12:44] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. No, they, they’re amazing. I won’t forget, uh, when I talk to Peyton West and you know, his wife Jessica last summer, uh, one of the things that Peyton took away from Isabel was Chardonnay is a journey. , you know, and it’s kind of the exact opposite of Pinot, and you just like do all your magic, but Chardonnay is just this, this marathon that it just constantly evolves and you kind of gotta babysit a little bit. [00:13:09] A.J. Weinzettel: So that was interesting. [00:13:11] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Yeah, I mean, I, if anyone has, you know, a philosophy worth, you know, diving into on Chardonnay, it’s Isabel. Produced a lot of really incredible ones over the years. Yeah. And uh, Chardonnay at Dusky Goose is something that I’m really excited about because it’s a grape that I haven’t worked with prior to Dusky Goose since 2010 when I was working for Cake, bread. [00:13:35] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And Cake. Bread makes a fantastic chardonnay, but we were, you know, making a hundred thousand cases of it Right. As opposed to our little, you know, 300 cases. It, it modeling. It’s, it’s a little bit different. It’s a little bit different, but I must say in retrospect, I am in awe of the, the quality and attention that Cake Bread was able to give to those wines on that scale. [00:13:57] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: That really a well run operation over there. [00:14:00] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. And if, if I remember the origin story of Chardonnay here at Dusky Goose. Mm-hmm. , um, the owners. , you know, we won a Chardonnay, but Limp Pen was like, I’ll [00:14:10] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: never make a Chardonnay. Yeah, she is a big Chardonnay hater. It continues to be, eh, . Um, yeah, she refused to do it at Pener Ash. [00:14:19] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: She refused to do it for Dusky Goose and eventually, um, John and Linda, the owners of Duy Goose wore her down. Right. And in 2014, they produced their first bottling off of the Fenwood Vineyard, which John, um, owned up until 2019. And, um, it’s, it’s been so well received by our customers. Yeah. That, uh, the, the program has grown in the last few years and we’ve added vineyard sites and it’s a. [00:14:52] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And, and also at Pan Ash, as soon as she sold the winery, they started making Chardonnay there. , of course. Why not? And she makes amazing Chardonnay. It’s just not her favorite thing to consume, [00:15:03] A.J. Weinzettel: right? No. And that, that’s understandable. Um, outside of the Carlton wine, at the Carlton Winemaker studio mm-hmm. [00:15:10] A.J. Weinzettel: outside of Isabel. Mm-hmm. , uh, you know, is there somebody else that like stands out as. A rockstar. [00:15:18] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Well, Anthony King, who, uh, makes his label ratio and then consults for a Silda and Guillen and a handful of other, you know, small producers there, he’s. Just a wealth of information and the most giving person of his time and advice. [00:15:37] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: He, he’s, he’s really incredible and his, um, approach to wine making is so methodical and thoughtful that it’s, it’s pretty inspiring in that way. Right. And he, you know, he’s a scientist. Um, by training. And so he, he brings that very analytical approach to it. And then, um, you know, when Peterson Ned was also a ton of fun to see, she gets to work with such amazing sites with their, you know, their Ridgecrest vineyard, which is so beautiful and historic and yeah, you know, they have such a, a long tradition of making wine here in the valley that it, it’s cool to see her, um, cuz she’s been doing it. [00:16:18] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: I mean, she’s. old by any means, but she’s been doing it for so long Oh gosh. That it’s just so, um, natural and it just kind of, it seems like it comes to her, you know, second nature, just, it’s pretty cool. It is [00:16:30] A.J. Weinzettel: pretty cool. And I’m, um, this year I think was her first vintage that she’s working with Arlan. [00:16:35] A.J. Weinzettel: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. and I, I cannot [00:16:37] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: wait to see what she produces. Yeah. I’m sure it’ll be fantastic. Yeah. I mean, there’s always a learning curve when you’re starting with a new site, but yeah, those wines are gonna be incredible, I’m sure. Yeah. Yeah. She [00:16:47] A.J. Weinzettel: does a great job. Um, if I were, if I was to ask your wife who’s a better winemaker, you or her, what would she say? [00:16:56] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: She would probably see her and she would be right. Okay. Yeah. . [00:17:01] A.J. Weinzettel: But you’re the better cook. That’s true. [00:17:03] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: That’s true. I don’t know what, yeah, she would probably say that as well. [00:17:07] A.J. Weinzettel: Um, if you had absolutely zero constraints. , right? You can like work with any great varietal, like just to experiment and play with, you know. [00:17:17] A.J. Weinzettel: Is there, is there anything in particular that kind of stands out to you? [00:17:21] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Well, that’s a tough question because there’s so many layers to it. There’s, you know, there’s wines that I love to consume, you know, like barlo, but you can’t, you can’t make barlo without. Nelo from Piedmont, so that’s kind of off the [00:17:38] A.J. Weinzettel: table. [00:17:39] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, no z zero constraints. You don’t, don’t, don’t worry about it. You could just, if you could [00:17:43] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: just do anything. Oh, well, Macon Barlo would be pretty darn fun. Okay. I’m also currently on a, a bit of a Shen and B Blanc kick, so if I could work with Shen and B Blanc from the lair or, I don’t know. I’m optimistic for Shen and Blanc in the Willamette Valley as well. [00:17:56] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Right. There’s just not a lot of it. When has something that she’s planted. I know. And I’m super excited for it. I think that she got like, maybe a ton this year, but you know, when it comes online, that’s gonna be super cool. [00:18:08] A.J. Weinzettel: It will be, I think, I think this was the first year that it came online. Mm-hmm. [00:18:11] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Yeah. And then, you know, I, I did it for 10 years and Napa Valley Cabernet still holds a special place in my heart. I love those wines. I, it, the best examples can be really transcendent. Right. And so if I could, you. , get some Spring Mountain Primo Cabernet trucked up here to play with. That would be pretty fun. [00:18:34] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: That would be fun. [00:18:35] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. That would be awesome. Oh, one of the kind of popular things that that’s kind of happening in the Willamette Valley is, you know, sparkling. Mm-hmm. . Do you have any interest of even dipping your toe [00:18:47] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: into that? I, I am. , cautiously optimistic about the possibility of Dusky Hughes doing that. [00:18:56] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Right. It’s, um, it’s something I don’t like to get into things. I don’t like to set myself up for failure. Of course. Of course. So, you know, things like that where I don’t have the background, I’m, I tend to be kind of hesitant for Well, you gotta be cautious. Yeah. Right, right, right. But I do love sparkling wine. [00:19:13] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And the wine, the sparkling wine being made in the valley is just getting better and better. You know, I still think that it’s got a ways to go to, to measure up to. to France, but you know, they’ve been doing it for hundreds of years. So Right in a hun in hundreds of years, I expect, uh, we’ll be making something just as good or if not better. [00:19:33] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And, and I [00:19:33] A.J. Weinzettel: completely agree. I mean, um, I think we’re not even bear, we’re, we’re at the cliff, edge of the cliff, right. Of. You know, maybe getting some older vintages of, of sparkling Exactly right. Um, you know, so Ileal Barnett, I think they started in 2012. Mm-hmm. , and of course, you know, you gotta put in, um, argyle in, into that picture and other places. [00:19:58] A.J. Weinzettel: But, um, , you know, give us, you know, another 15, you know, some odd years and we’ll get, we’ll, you know, get some nice reserve wine in there. I think it’s gonna be quite special. Yeah. [00:20:08] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Well, so we have, um, a consultant here at Dusky Goose, uh, Chris Carolina, and he was, um, um, A big part of the success at Argyle on the sales side. [00:20:19] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: So he’s definitely been in my ear to start making sparkling and like, right. And I’m like, well, I don’t know how to do it. And yeah, he said, well, you the only one way to learn [00:20:29] A.J. Weinzettel: and just go for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. , Peyton West, you know, is now the winemaker at Benza. Mm-hmm. , and he’s now dabbling in into spark lanes. [00:20:38] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: So that’s, well, and he unfortunately has Jess, who’s been doing it for a little while to Right. To help him along. Which is, which is great for them both. It, it is great, [00:20:46] A.J. Weinzettel: you know, but you know, I, you know, I think you could probably talk to them a little bit. [00:20:50] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Oh, sure. He actually, I can see his house from my house. [00:20:52] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: He lives right around the corner to. But [00:20:55] A.J. Weinzettel: there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Just get together and just have a nice little session. I think over the summer, you know, there was a bunch of winemakers that got together at Harper Voigt. Mm-hmm. . There was a big old ganache tasting, which was quite interesting to, to see the, yeah. [00:21:09] A.J. Weinzettel: The end result of that. That would’ve been quite a fun experie ganache you say. . Yeah. Cool. [00:21:14] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Yeah. Yeah. We played, Andrew played with that a little bit. Um, well, he did for many, many years, um, but only a couple years while I was working for him. But Andrew’s, um, real passion in wine is, uh, the Rhone. And so when he came up to the Willamette Valley from, uh, from Santa Cruz, he was at Bonnie Dune. [00:21:34] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Right. His whole goal was to try to emulate Chatan enough up here, but he. quickly realized that, um, the grape varieties required to produce that weren’t really planted even in Washington. Right. So, uh, he pivoted and did pinot and bordea varieties and all sorts of different stuff, but over the years he did get some really incredible SRA sites and Grenache Mave, right. [00:21:58] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: All the things. He does a lot of fun [00:22:00] A.J. Weinzettel: stuff. He sure does. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, when I go to the studio, I’m like, all right, so what, what does he have? Yep. He, uh, over the summer, a, again, over the summer, I got some, uh, p and o from the Bedner, uh mm-hmm. Vineyard. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I was like, oh, I [00:22:16] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: was there. That’s a really cool site. [00:22:17] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: It is. [00:22:18] A.J. Weinzettel: I’ve, I’ve heard amazing things. You know, I didn’t know that he has some Martin Woods hundred sons. . Project M. Project M. Yeah. [00:22:25] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Yeah. It’s, it’s so cool. It, it was one of, it was always, you know, in one sense it was kind of a pain cuz it’s way the hell out there by Right. Um, by the reservoir and you know, so it, it was a challenge to stay on top of and sample and everything, but I was always more than willing to go out there just cuz once you got there it was so peaceful and so gorgeous. [00:22:48] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Just these old unrooted Piar vines. . I don’t know. It was lovely. Yeah. [00:22:54] A.J. Weinzettel: It’s, uh, Renee from Hundred Sons, you know, kind of went in and told me about it and mm-hmm. , it’s, it’s still on my little bucket list to, to get out there and, you know, [00:23:04] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: specifically I know that Project M does periodic, uh, vineyard tours out there. [00:23:08] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Okay. Yeah. It might just be once a year or something, but, um, and Jerry’s a super cool guy. [00:23:14] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. He does seem like a be a very super cool guy. I haven’t talked to him yet, but it’s, it’s getting there. Yeah. Yeah. Um, . And so you mentioned that you have like a, a one-year-old and a three-year-old. Mm-hmm. , your wife is a winemaker. [00:23:27] A.J. Weinzettel: Mm-hmm. , just dive a little bit into like what in the world does harvest look like [00:23:31] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: for you guys? Well, we are very fortunate to have, um, family support, otherwise we couldn’t do it. Um, This last year, my, uh, stepmom and father moved in with us for the month of October, which was, you know, the crux of harvest this year. [00:23:51] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Right. And that, you know, is, that’s what made it happen for us. They were there in the mornings to get the kids off to daycare, pick ’em up from daycare. Uh, my stepmom cooked for us every night, and then on the weekends they watched ’em all day, so, wow. That’s amazing. It took a tremendous amount of pressure off of us. [00:24:10] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And then in years past, um, my mother-in-law has, uh, born the brunt of the, uh, the childcare duties, especially on the weekends. Um, but yeah, we just make it work and yeah, one of us goes in super early and one of us comes home super late, typically, that sort of thing. Well, you [00:24:30] A.J. Weinzettel: got a TAG team and you know mm-hmm. [00:24:32] A.J. Weinzettel: it all takes a, a big old village. That’s right. , do you know who Josh McDaniels is from? Plato? Mc. [00:24:39] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: McDaniel? Sure. Yeah. No, we get um, we get Chardonnay from, from Cooley. Oh, okay. Oh, [00:24:45] A.J. Weinzettel: okay. Nice . Um, so he was 16 and he started his own winery , right? Yeah. That’s ambitious. It was. Oh. But I can imagine, you know, your two kids are in this. [00:25:00] A.J. Weinzettel: set up and, uh, very much have, you know, influence, you know, of the wine community and whatnot. Yeah. So my question is, uh, how do you, uh, handle if one of your, one of your children come up to you at the age of 16 and say that, you know, they wanna start a winery? [00:25:19] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Um, . Well, I don’t, it’s hard to say not, I mean, not really knowing what kind of kids they’re gonna be in. [00:25:25] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Well, mean 13 years. Well, I know, but, but, uh, yeah. I mean, it’s a wonderful industry to be a part of. That said, my wife and I are funny in that, um, we have no desire to do our own thing. We are more than happy to work for other folks. We get to get. Our jollies out creatively, right. Working for other folks and let them, you know, reap the rewards, but also take the risk of, of the products that we produce. [00:25:51] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: So I might caution them in that way, but at the same time, if they’re really passionate about it, I would say Yeah, do it. No, that’s, [00:25:58] A.J. Weinzettel: that. It’s cool. Um, yeah, I know that they’re super young. Yeah. I think you said one in three mm. , are you thinking, you know, down the road of kind of like, what a legacy would that, would that what you’re trying to set for them is that enter in I [00:26:12] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: think not so much from a wine perspective. [00:26:14] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: I mean, hopefully that they, you know, enjoy the, what we produce, but, um, that’s not a huge priority and, you know, they’ll grow into their own people and I just wanna support them. And however, you know, they, you know, they want to be supported. Right. [00:26:30] A.J. Weinzettel: No, I, I, I get it. So I have a, I have a 14 year old daughter. [00:26:34] A.J. Weinzettel: and you know, like she’s big time into ballet. Mm-hmm. , uh, we do ballet four nights a week and, uh, you know, there’s homework and then there’s, she just got invited to do another performance over the spring, so that’s gonna be even more. And it’s at three. I would’ve never had any clue, right. That we’d be knee deep into, uh, into all the ballet. [00:27:01] A.J. Weinzettel: and she’s currently big time into anime, and I’m like, I never would’ve seen that coming. Mm-hmm. , you know, so I, I know it’s an unfair question, you know, but it was just, I, I always, um, ever since I had talked to Andy Lele last year, you know, just the legacy just is always in the back of my head. Yeah. [00:27:17] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: I mean, I think honestly the things that they’re going to get pressured into more from both of us are things like, , um, sports, you know, just being active, having outlets outside of, you know, school and your general day to day. [00:27:35] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: You know, we were, both my wife and I, were both, uh, athletes through high school and into college and, you know, music is important to us. Just lot, having diverse interests, whatever they, you know, happen to be right. being a, a cycling enthusiast myself, I will definitely pressure them to get out on the mountain bike with me, but Right. [00:28:00] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: You know, um, I also know that the best way to deter them from doing that is to pressure in that minute doing it. So I try to use a light hand. [00:28:07] A.J. Weinzettel: Right. No, that’s, that’s cool. So have you found some good mountain bike trails since [00:28:11] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: you left? Yeah. Yeah. There’s lots of great mountain biking trails in, in Oregon. [00:28:15] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: You know, there’s. , the Oak Ridge area has incredible mountain biking outside of Portland Hood River. Right. Um, locally, there’s a little bit of mountain biking, but it’s, um, like unsanctioned trail type of things. Right? Yeah. [00:28:31] A.J. Weinzettel: Uh, so I, you know, we, we talked about biking a teen, but I, I like to do cycle war again. [00:28:36] A.J. Weinzettel: Mm-hmm. , you know, week long, 500 mile road biking. Cool. and, you know, they’re starting to like, bring in gravel mm-hmm. . Right. Have you done [00:28:46] any [00:28:46] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: gravel biking? I haven’t. I’m, I’m strictly gravity based. Right. Um, I, I suffer the ups to enjoy the downs and that we all, that’s, that’s my, uh, right. That’s my personality. [00:28:59] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Okay. Yeah. [00:29:00] A.J. Weinzettel: So, uh, I enjoy the ups, you know, for the down as well. I love, you know, going down a. At like 50 miles an hour and just like, yes, , please don’t let a car come out. . Right. . Um, so I, I totally understand, you know, suffering through the ups. Yeah. Um, you, you’ve been nice and integrated into the Oregon wine community, you know, through your wife and through the Carlton Winemaker studio and now Dusky Goose. [00:29:29] A.J. Weinzettel: And, uh, is there any like one or two stories that really stick out to you of. The collaboration, you know, of the Oregon wine community? [00:29:40] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Sure. I mean, one in particular, it’s a, it’s a tragic story, but Jesus guillen of, uh, white rose and Guillen wines passed away a few years ago, and just watching the way the community rallied around its family to keep the brand. [00:29:58] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Afloat making wine, you know, when he passed away right before harvest. Right. So, Anthony King in particular stepped in, in a major way there, um, has since taken on that project, but, you know, I, I helped a little bit. Coming in and you know, just driving the forklift and shuffling barrels now and again, cuz Anthony was making his own wine, making his clients wine, and then volunteering his time to make Jesus’s wine as well. [00:30:25] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: So, yeah, I mean that was, that was pretty special to see. And then, you know, the, um, the. 2020, vintage being the challenge that it was just seeing the, the pooling of resources, mental resources to try to get everyone’s mind wrapped around that very specific and rare problem, you know, in the Willamette Valley was really impressive because it, it’s sort of, I mean, to this day, it’s a problem that there’s no silver bullet fixed for no one, no one knows what to do or how to approach it or what you. [00:31:02] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: what the right approach is, but Right. Everyone was so collaborative and forthcoming with, well, so this is what I heard from so-and-so in Australia where they deal with fires all the time or so-and-so in Anderson Valley where they deal with fires occasionally. So that was, that was pretty incredible that That is incredible. [00:31:21] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: and, um, yeah, I mean the, in 2017 when, um, the tubs fire in, uh, like Santa Rosa was happening, uh, Fila was making wine at the studio, so their assistant winemaker, um, who lived in Santa Rosa, whose house was threatened, was getting calls from his wife about, you know, uh, we’re evacuating and he’s just at the studio, you know, doing punch downs. [00:31:49] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Right. And like eventually is like, I gotta get the hell outta here. Yeah. I gotta, I gotta go, you know? Yeah. That’s, it could be with my family. And then, you know, fortunately the, the studio was able to step in there and take over things, but it’s. . Yeah. Everyone just is pulling for everyone else. It’s great. [00:32:06] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: And it’s a, you know, rising tides, lifts all boats sort of mentality here in Oregon. Yeah, [00:32:11] A.J. Weinzettel: no, most, most definitely. Uh, kind of going back to the studio, uh, are you still making wines at the studio for Dusky Goose or do you got that the new facility is [00:32:23] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: completely online? Yeah. So we. Dusky Goose moved out of Penner Ash in 2020, after the 2020 vintage was bottled. [00:32:33] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: So in 21 we made our wines at the studio and saw them through bottling there. Right? And then. in 21 right before Harvest, John and Linda purchased a production facility in Carlton just down the road. And so it was essentially a turnkey operation when it was purchased. Um, it had been operating as a winery before. [00:32:57] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Um, we could have just stepped right in and started making wine, but we were under contract at the studio. Um, I had been at the studio so long that it was actually kind of a nice transition for me just kind of taking one, you. element of change out of the equation. Right? Right. And so, and it gave me, uh, an opportunity to have an entire year to get the new facility. [00:33:21] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Although it was turnkey. There was, there was things to be done. And so, um, gave me a year to get situated there and get our licensing all set up and Right. So, uh, yeah, now we are, currently, all of our production is done at. , uh, two 13 North Em, hill Street in Carleton. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, it’s a ton of fun to have my own space and, uh, , uh, ample amount of it, [00:33:45] A.J. Weinzettel: Right. And you work on your own timeline. You don’t have to overlap with everybody, so That’s exactly, yeah. No, that’s, that is, that is nice. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, so I have some rapid fire questions and then we can reveal what the wine is. Cool. Okay. Uh, favorite artist to listen to during harvest. [00:34:03] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Ooh. Changes from year to year. I think this last year we were listening to a lot of, um, gosh. So Celeste, my intern was mostly in charge of, uh, DJ responsibilities. Right. And, um, there was a band that was new to me that we listened to a bunch and it’s, I’m blanking on it right now, but, uh, normally it’s, it’s something pretty energetic. [00:34:31] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Um, we’re, we’re on the sorting line. It can be tedious. We’re trying to keep spirits high, so, you know, it could. James Brown or Journey, or you know, something that has some good, some good vibes. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Bob Marley, definitely a lot of Bob Marley. [00:34:47] A.J. Weinzettel: Okay. Nice, nice. Uh, favorite indulgent food? [00:34:51] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Ooh, um. [00:34:55] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: I would say like lamb shanks. I really love lamb and like a braised lamb shank on a day like today certainly hits the spot for me. That would be [00:35:04] A.J. Weinzettel: great. Um, if you could choose a superpower, what would it be? [00:35:10] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Hmm. Gosh. [00:35:17] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: I’m just gonna go down the middle of. Okay. Yeah. [00:35:21] A.J. Weinzettel: Uh, harvest notes. Are they digital or handwritten? [00:35:24] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Handwritten. [00:35:26] A.J. Weinzettel: Okay. Favorite [00:35:27] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: superhero? Um, growing up it was Wolverine. Yeah. Oh. [00:35:35] A.J. Weinzettel: Have you heard that Wolverine is coming back? I did not like Deadpool three. [00:35:39] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: No. Yeah, that’s exciting. Is it gonna be, um, um, what’s his name? [00:35:44] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: The. Hugh Jackman, Hugh Jackman. Yep, it is. Yep. [00:35:48] A.J. Weinzettel: Cool. It’s Hugh Jackman coming back as Wolverine. That’s awesome. Obviously in the timeline. It’s before Wolverine passes away, but yeah, I’m, I’m looking [00:35:55] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: forward to that. Yeah, that’s super fun. I used to love comic books, but I mostly liked them for the illustrations. [00:35:59] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: I was less attached to the storylines, which is kind of weird. I would, I would find a, uh, an artist that I really liked and I would buy all of their comic books regardless. Who was in them. [00:36:11] A.J. Weinzettel: And that’s kind of how my daughter is about anime. Mm-hmm. , I mean, she likes all the stories, but, you know, and at some point she’ll, you know, she’ll pause and she’s like, look at that, look at the detail that they’re doing there. [00:36:22] A.J. Weinzettel: And like, look at the facial expressions. Right. And she’s all about the, the illustrations. Cool. Uh, last book you read, [00:36:31] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: um, I’m currently reading Cannery. By Steinbeck. Okay. It’s a ton of fun. And we were just down in, uh, Monterey and, uh, on Cannery Row, so it inspired me to go back to that one. [00:36:45] A.J. Weinzettel: Very nice. Yeah. [00:36:46] A.J. Weinzettel: Uh, shall I reveal what the wine is? Yes, please. Okay. [00:36:54] A.J. Weinzettel: You know, so I didn’t, I, I know that you like a little bit, you know, of the heavier wines. Mm-hmm. , so I knew I couldn’t bring a peanut. I mean, I knew I could, but that. Your, your heart is in pinot, but like your foundation. Right. So I, uh, went with the . Look at that. Oh nine Andrew Rich, uh, Columbia Valley. [00:37:15] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: Oh, good job, Andrew. [00:37:17] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: That’s delicious. Yeah. Yeah. That’s super fun. Thank you for sharing that. Oh yeah, I know. You’re most welcome. Prometheus. Yeah, that’s, um, . That’s a fun one, I think. Well, when, when I was making it with Andrea, it was a blend of Red Willow and, um, CLO de Shal, sorry, CEL de Shal Vineyards, and it was always one of my favorites. [00:37:46] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: I don’t know what if it was working with the same sites at the time, but [00:37:49] A.J. Weinzettel: yeah, I, I don’t know. Yeah. Well, do you have any other questions or anything else that you’d like to cover? No, I think [00:37:55] Hans Van Dale Dusky Goose: that was, thanks for coming. That was a ton of.