Podcast Episode #57 – Guerrilla Wine Company: Love at third sight, Muay Thai, and the Art of Winemaking

Guerrilla Wine Company

Buckle up for a captivating journey as we sit down with Mariel and Michael from Guerrilla Wine Company in Oregon’s Willamette Valley. The adventure unfolds with a love story that began at third sight during the tumultuous days of COVID. Join us as we explore the reasons behind their daring leap of faith, and discover the surprising items that had reached their expiration date in Mariel’s fridge. Get ready for an unexpected twist.

Episode highlights with Guerrila Wine Company

Mariel, whose mom owned a bottle shop in Maine, shares her extraordinary odyssey to Oregon. Her mother’s profound wisdom, “Wine is a journey,” sets the tone for a conversation that explores her industry insights and the serendipitous meeting with Michael at Bergstrom.

But that’s not all. Michael, a former competitive Muay Thai fighter for a decade. The art of eight limbs and how it should be their marketing strategy. Discover how being a Muay Thai fighter uniquely prepared him for the task of carrying Mariel down the stairs to press grapes.

Throughout the episode, we delve into a blind wine, Guerrilla’s Chardonnay, accompanied by a discussion on a couple of inspirational bottles Michael discovered.

And of course, we wrap things up with some rapid-fire questions, unveiling their favorite artist during harvest, indulgent foods, chosen superpowers, and the last book they read.

This episode is a rollercoaster of emotions, from love stories to Muay Thai adventures, and the art of winemaking – Guerrilla style. Tune in for a wild ride and be sure to visit their website.

If you enjoyed this episode, keep it going and continue the binge!

Watch the Guerrilla Wine Company Interview on YouTube

Transcription of interview with Guerrilla Wine Company in Oregon’s Willamette Valley

[00:00:00] A.J. Weinzettel: Cheers to another episode of the Wine Notes podcast. I’m your guide, A. J. Weinzettel, on this journey of stories showcasing the people behind the wonderful world of wine, where we dive into conversations ranging from terroir, viticulture, to favorite music, superpowers, and more. Please enjoy this episode of the Wine Notes podcast.

[00:00:24] A.J. Weinzettel: Michael, Mariel, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I really appreciate you taking the time. 

[00:00:28] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah, thank you for having us. Totally. Yeah, we’re thrilled 

[00:00:30] to 

[00:00:30] A.J. Weinzettel: be here. Yeah, I mean, fall is actually like here now. We’re rainy and temperatures are starting to cool down. And holy cow. 

[00:00:37] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Best time of year.

[00:00:38] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And harvest is done. Yes. That’s the important part. Harvest is done. Yeah. We pulled in our last fruit October 4th. 5th. 5th. 

[00:00:48] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Fourth or fifth. Fourth or fifth. Yeah. That works. Yeah, we’re tired. I don’t blame you. It’s hard to remember dates at this point. Yeah. 

[00:00:54] A.J. Weinzettel: I can imagine. Uh, should I start off with a little bit of a blind wine?

[00:00:58] A.J. Weinzettel: Please do. Okay. Yeah. Well, as I tell everybody, I try to find a connection with the blind wine in you. Um, and you know, you can say whatever you want to, you can say it’s yummy, you can say it’s awful, you can say you nerd out on it, it is totally completely up to you. Cool. Oh. And then toward the end of the podcast, I will reveal what we have.

[00:01:21] A.J. Weinzettel: Cool. I’m nervous. You know, it’s fun to, you know, have a little bit of a blind wine and just… No, that’s 

[00:01:29] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: super fun. Yeah. You’re giving me testing PTSD right now. 

[00:01:35] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, you know, you gotta have a reason to go to therapy. 

[00:01:40] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: It’s cool. There’s some maturity, like, right on the nose. Like that cool, like, honey waxy thing.

[00:01:44] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: So definitely some like… Oxidation, whether that’s intentional in the style or not, but it seems like vibrant in the nose too. 

[00:01:49] A.J. Weinzettel: I’ve, uh, I opened it about an hour ago, and, uh, you know, I wanted to make sure it was kind of at room temperature. Didn’t want it to be overly chilled.

[00:02:03] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Mmm. Yeah, pretty.

[00:02:08] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Super pretty. Like honey oxy overtones. Like super elegant. Integrated. You get that like pervasive like kind of like twinkling minerality. Yeah. It’s pretty. Beautiful. Yeah. 

[00:02:17] A.J. Weinzettel: Cool. Very cool. Okay. So I’m going to go back in time a little bit. Sure. You had a tasting set up at Flannor that got canceled. Yes.

[00:02:29] A.J. Weinzettel: And you ended up going to Bergstrom for that tasting. Yes. And, Michael, you were at Bergstrom as well, doing the tasting, um, for Mariel and her friends, her friend, and, you know, it was a bad day for them, and you kind of like brought a ray of sunshine into their day. He did 

[00:02:50] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: indeed. He whistled me anything that day.

[00:02:54] A.J. Weinzettel: Anyway, and you ended up getting, you know, an industry discount because your mom, you know, your parents have a bottle shop in Maine. They do. Yeah. But tell me some more about that day. 

[00:03:06] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, yeah, I, I think that we sort of, uh, I think he could tell that I, like, knew a little bit about wine and I was sort of geeking out over a few things and, um, you know, it was just the two, it’s just my friend Courtney and I and him sitting in, it was freezing in there, um, cause they used to do the tastings in the barrel room at Bergstrom.

[00:03:28] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, so, I, you know, it was just like we had a good conversation. He’s obviously very attractive. Um, you know, so that always helps. Um, but yeah, we just kind of had a good conversation. Very cool. Yeah, went back a few weeks later and geeked out about wine again. And then, yeah. 

[00:03:48] A.J. Weinzettel: So at what point, Michael, were you like, Who is this person?

[00:03:53] A.J. Weinzettel: And like, they, they, she knows about wine. And like, what? What intrigued you to offer up the industry discount and get her, like, phone number? That 

[00:04:01] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: was tricky. 

[00:04:03] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I didn’t think that that was what was happening. That went right over my head. Yeah. So, I had no 

[00:04:08] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: idea. Yeah, I’ll take credit for that, that was pretty, I thought that was pretty sly.

[00:04:13] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: That was super 

[00:04:13] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: sly. Super sly. So sly I didn’t even know what was happening, so. 

[00:04:17] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: There you go. Um, but yeah, mostly just easy, you know, you have the connection with someone and um, talking about, you know, uh, I don’t know, nerding out on something and then when someone can kind of like be like, oh yeah, da da da, and you’re like.

[00:04:29] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Wait, but really? How do you know that? That’s cool. There’s a, you know, frames of reference. She had some sort of background or affiliation or, you know, you’ve worked in your mom’s shop and so on and so forth. Um, I don’t know. More than that, people don’t really have that level of knowledge unless there was some sort of self pursuit or self interest as well.

[00:04:52] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: As just like hearing geeky things in passing. So, um, you kind of had like… The framework of the mechanics to, um, I don’t know, just like continue those interesting conversations and, um, you know, I can talk about that stuff all day long. So, yeah, 

[00:05:07] A.J. Weinzettel: yeah. No, that, that’s awesome. Then your bachelor, adding it up.

[00:05:12] A.J. Weinzettel: And he had a bunch of expired stuff in your fridge. So what, what were some of the things that were so expired in life? Oh God, 

[00:05:18] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I forgot 

[00:05:19] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: about the story. Yeah, he came to my house and he was like, this is expired. I’m like, condiments don’t expire, I don’t think. I don’t think condiments expire. But yeah, there was lots of things that he was like pulling out of my…

[00:05:32] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: If it’s, um… A bit of disarray, perhaps, in my kitchen. I’m a very clean person, but I’m a little, like, disorganized, let’s say. Um, so, he was like, going through, there was a day that he pulled everything out of all of my cabinets and set it all on the counters. And I was like, this is embarrassing. Um, so yeah, there was…

[00:05:54] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I think there was like That’s why I did it. 

[00:05:56] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I wanted to shame you. Yeah. I tried to invite all of your friends over so they could see too, but 

[00:06:02] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: everyone was busy. It worked. I was shamed. Um, yeah. 

[00:06:05] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And you’re here to talk about it today. Yeah. And here we are. I was, I was trying to establish how well we would work on problems together, like problem solving.

[00:06:13] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Like, let’s just get this out in the open. Right. Like, 

[00:06:15] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: you have expired things and I need them gone. And I was like But I like my old mayonnaise, you know, things like that. I 

[00:06:21] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: felt condiments are probably neutral. Like we were going to navigate like the wine business and like kids and families, you know, all that kind of stuff.

[00:06:27] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Like start at condiments, see how it goes, work your way up. 

[00:06:30] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah, yeah, it went okay. I was shamed for sure. But like at the end of the day, it was so much better organized. He’s very good at those kinds of things. So yeah, I lucked out there. 

[00:06:41] A.J. Weinzettel: Very nice. Yeah, very nice. And talking about your, your parents bottle shop.

[00:06:49] A.J. Weinzettel: What was that? Okay, I was gonna say, what was that like growing up? And the reason I ask, do you all know who Gary Vaynerchuk is? Yes. So, I mean, he grew up in kind of a similar fashion. I kind of got an idea of, you know, his point of view. Yeah. But I’m kind of curious of your point 

[00:07:04] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: of view. So this came about a little later in life for my mom.

[00:07:07] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: She was like a healthcare lobbyist actually for about 20 years prior to them moving to the East Coast. And my stepdad’s, um, an emergency doctor, um, and so she started by just managing the shop originally, and then they bought in like an ownership stake of it. So I didn’t, I wasn’t really a part of it until, um, I moved to Maine.

[00:07:30] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, like, I think I was 21, yeah, and so I worked there a little bit and worked, um, around the corner at, at the wine bar that is originally associated with the shop, um, and just, it was a good, great learning experience. My parents got really into wine when I was like in high school, um, and travel a bunch for it and let me drink wine at the table, so that was always nice, so I got an early exposure.

[00:07:55] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: You know, you start at, like, Santa Margarita Pinot Grigio and go onwards and upwards from there. A little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so it was cool, like, I’m, you know, my mom always says this really corny thing to me, which I make fun of her for, but she’s like, Wine is a journey. Yes, did I tell you?

[00:08:13] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Did I tell you that? No. Oh. 

[00:08:15] A.J. Weinzettel: I do my research. Oh, okay. 

[00:08:18] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, so she says, um, she says that all the time and I’m always like, you know, rolling my eyes. But, you know, it really is. It’s true. Like, it kind of, it can take you a lot of places and, um, kind of combines all the things I love. Language and travel and culture and food and all the things, so, um.

[00:08:35] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: No, I’m very grateful to them for kind of exposing me to that and being able to be a part of it and work the shop and work tastings. It’s a good way to kind of dip your toes in the pool. Yeah. I’m still mad at them for not telling me that I could have, like, gone on and done a degree in it, because I think I would have done that.

[00:08:50] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: But, that’s okay. Yeah, 

[00:08:52] A.J. Weinzettel: that’s… It’s difficult. I mean, you like… You want your kids to grow up with the stability and like, you know, you were in like health care. So you’re like health care 

[00:09:02] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: wine, 

[00:09:03] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: right? Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, 

[00:09:06] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: it’s just different route. Big contributors to the wine industry. Yeah. Healthcare 

[00:09:09] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: workers drink quite a bit.

[00:09:12] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: So, you know, and I certainly did my part. 

[00:09:16] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that. 

[00:09:19] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: No. But no, it was fun. It was fun to be a part of it. And it’s still there. Um, my mom doesn’t manage the day to day operations anymore, but she sure gets wine at cost, and that’s the important thing. That is the important 

[00:09:30] A.J. Weinzettel: thing, yes.

[00:09:31] A.J. Weinzettel: Totally. Um, yourself, Michael, you were a, um, I want to mispronounce this. A Maui TIE 

[00:09:40] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: fighter? Oh, uh, yeah, Muay Thai. Muay, yes, yes. Um, yep, yep, uh, competitive Muay Thai. And, uh, kind of the Bay Area. And then, uh, in Arizona. Yeah. 

[00:09:54] A.J. Weinzettel: Why? 

[00:09:55] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, I like doing, um, like hard things. Like complex problem solving, I guess. Um, but not like sitting.

[00:10:05] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And doing complex problem solving, like actively doing complex problem solving. Um, and, uh, I love just sports and athletics and, and I, I’m a minimalist. Um, and so I could, um, do this with, um, rolling in flip flops every day. Um, maybe wrapping my hands and then, you know, I could get to work. Nice. So, yeah. Okay.

[00:10:30] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah, it’s why I’m not like a, like a hiker, you know, cause you need like a kit and, yeah, like a walkie talkie, you know, I don’t know the things that hikers need, but like it’s a lot. Did you say a walkie talkie? Yeah, don’t you think? It’s safe. I think 

[00:10:41] A.J. Weinzettel: I would 

[00:10:42] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: take a telephone. 

[00:10:43] A.J. Weinzettel: Okay. Well, I mean, if you’re in a group.

[00:10:46] A.J. Weinzettel: You know, you might want to walkie talkie for short range. Yeah. 

[00:10:49] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Heads up. There’s a gecko up on the left. You might want to check out. Real cool gecko. Over. 

[00:10:56] A.J. Weinzettel: Plan 

[00:10:56] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: four. Gecko on the 

[00:10:57] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: left. Yeah. Yeah. No, 

[00:10:58] A.J. Weinzettel: that’s, that’s, that is very awesome. You brought a few wines. We did. Yes. Do you want to dive into one of them?

[00:11:04] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Okay. Let’s do it. We can go us, or. Yeah, start with us. Bounce around. Sounds good. Whatever you want to do. Maybe we’ll go backwards. Should we go backwards? Whatever you want. I’m not 

[00:11:17] A.J. Weinzettel: sure. It’s all up to you. Okay. The pressure 

[00:11:19] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: is on right now. Yeah. Okay. Let’s, we can do us. This is Chardonnay. Can I pour for you?

[00:11:26] A.J. Weinzettel: Yes, thank you. So you were telling me when you came in you just hand bottled 

[00:11:31] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: these, right? Yeah, this was the old, uh, keg in a basement, um, on top of, uh, You know, some other recently bottled wine in boxes, and just, you know, gravity siphoned into Magnum. So, um, no disbargement, so just, um, bottled with plenty of oxygen, pulling out of the keg.

[00:11:51] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Right. Um, but kind of a cool, you know, I don’t know, it’s good to have things around that you want to drink and pull, and we try to prevent ourselves from pulling, like, finalized labeled bottlings as much as possible, so this is kind of like the family stash. 

[00:12:06] A.J. Weinzettel: Very nice. Well, I appreciate you sharing this.

[00:12:08] A.J. Weinzettel: Oh, 

[00:12:08] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: yeah. Yeah. No, it’s 

[00:12:10] A.J. Weinzettel: got to be a very special little bottle. 

[00:12:12] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Thanks. Um, but hopefully with that auction, we get a little more, just a little more expression a little earlier on. Um, but I think the, you know, they’ll age quite well. So. 

[00:12:20] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, I’m very curious to, to try this. I know at the Neskowin Wine Festival, you poured me the, I think it was a 22 Zenith.

[00:12:30] A.J. Weinzettel: of Vineyard Chardonnay. And I absolutely loved it. Thank you. I think one of the first words out of my mouth was like, This has got to be in stainless for quite a bit of time. 

[00:12:42] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Interestingly, it wasn’t. It was in stainless for like, three weeks? Three to four weeks, just at the end there. Um, it spent most of its life in neutral pungents.

[00:12:54] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Some Austrian and French pungents. Very nice. 

[00:12:58] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Um, yeah, kind of minimalist with the process. Um, you know, we, uh, I guess I was speaking to, to, to maybe the profile, maybe the, um, what you felt was kind of the linear or brightness or acid perception of stainless steel. Um, I like, uh, I like the idea of working with a lot of texture.

[00:13:20] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I think that a big, um, aspect for me, or at least kind of what, Wine has brought out, I love food, I love cooking, um, and it’s kind of like the assemblance of all those ingredients that they don’t just add the thing that you’re adding, but they add continually contrasting elements. And so, um, I think with the texture that we’re able to get on this wine, um, there’s even more perceptible acidity than maybe even the chemistry would say.

[00:13:48] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, I remember while making this wine. You know, I, uh, consulted some fellow winemaker friends of mine, um, who are all super awesome. Um, like way better winemakers than me and properly educated and all of them, they were like, Oh, I would, I, I would have said if I had bumped out to, you know, six, whatever, so on and so forth, and then a TA and whatnot.

[00:14:08] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And um, I’m like, okay, good to know, good to know, good to know, like three people who are way smarter than me and like, this is what they would do. Okay, I’m not going to do that. Because then, like, I’ll know, you know? Because if I, if I can’t make that wine and know, you know, then how do I know if whatever thing I’m correcting or adding, if I’m going in the right direction, or if that’s what’s best for the wine.

[00:14:31] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Right. Um, so it’s cool that, you know, maybe you note that, um, that it feels like it’s stainless. Um, I feel like that’s been a lot of the early perceptions of the wine. It’s, it’s obviously very youthful. It’s like really shut down right now. Um, so, you know, kind of on day four and five we kind of get a better idea of the, the fruits and things going on.

[00:14:49] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, but yeah, I, I like, uh, For now, uh, at least I don’t like changing the chemistry on our wine. So, um, what we, what we pick with is what we work with. 

[00:14:59] A.J. Weinzettel: No, and that, then that’s great. And the wine here today in the glass, it’s, is it the same? It is. Okay. Yeah. Good, good. I’m glad to get to revisit it and reacquaint myself with it.

[00:15:11] A.J. Weinzettel: Um, I just love, like if I had to pick out one thing in particular, it’s the finish on this. Thank you. It just lingers and lingers and lingers and it’s just, it’s… You get that, I call it a, a racy edge, but you have to kind of pay attention to actually get it and grasp it. But I like that. Yeah. Right? Because I want something that intrigues me, that catches my attention, that I have to dig deep a little, a little for to, to really appreciate.

[00:15:46] A.J. Weinzettel: Cause, you know, a lot of, you know, some of the other Chardonnays, you know, they’re, you know, they’re very high acidity and it’s just a big old mouthful. And you’re like, immediately you’re like, Oh, right. But this, this is, this is that leanness that I, that I really appreciate. 

[00:16:00] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Cool. 

[00:16:01] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. We were pretty happy with it.

[00:16:03] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I’m very excited when the, with the finished product, like we, I think like last night, we’re sitting on the couch drinking it. Uh, They say, don’t get high on your own supply, but um, we tend to pull this out quite a bit just because I think we both really love drinking it and I think that’s a sign that we’ve done something right.

[00:16:23] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: If we’re, if we’ve made something that like pleases our palates, then we’re happy with that and like excited that other people, you know, find the same in it. So yeah. 

[00:16:32] A.J. Weinzettel: And don’t they say, I mean, you should make stuff for your palate that you like and not for 

[00:16:39] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: everybody else. Right. Yeah. I think that’d be too hard.

[00:16:42] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I, I don’t, I mean, this is hard, but it’s, um, like a, like a personal challenging thing that I, that I can tackle. Um, but I think if I had to make wine for someone else’s specific palate for another reason, it would just be too, it would just be too difficult there. I, this, I feel like I’m so connected to the process and actually, um, the kind of Chardonnay you described.

[00:17:10] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Early on, it’s, or maybe 10 years ago, um, at this point, but I think that’s what I would have wanted to make initially starting down this journey. And, you know, wine’s funny like that. Like you, I remember going down like the acid rabbit hole with Riesling and, and, and Gruner. Um, and, and, and Aligota even, and, and, and Brut Nature Champagne and all these things and thinking like, there’s no limit.

[00:17:35] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Right? There’s no limit. There’s no limit. Like, we’re just going to sour skittle this all the way until the wheels fall off, um, and then you sort of get to this point where you’re like, oh, like, there’s a redundancy here sometimes, um, oh, sometimes the, the acid is sort of there and the other elements aren’t in balance or it, you know, there’s, there’s so much striking quality to the acidity that limits the complexity or, or the, the evolution of the wine when it’s in the glass or it’s in your mouth or, you know, so on and so forth.

[00:18:02] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: So, um, actually. This gentleman, um, you know, one of the gods here, um, Shav, there’s a really cool podcast with him and he describes a Marsan Rusan vineyard that he farms and they’re so old and they’re so mangled and they can’t tell the difference between Rusan. And so he doesn’t treat it variably specific and it allows him to look at different elements that maybe other people wouldn’t look at.

[00:18:25] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, and one of the things he talks about is, um, The, again, from a chemistry standpoint, if you looked at that Marsan Roussan, um, you’d say, like, don’t, don’t make wine from this. Like, there’s no acid. Right. Um, and, you know, he says ten years in bottle, ten or fifteen years in bottle, and the acid comes back, the freshness comes back.

[00:18:44] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, and so, you know, it’s these, like, ever changing concepts. That, um, I love so much about doing this because it’s not just like, Okay, just crank up the acid. Okay, just use new oak. Okay, just do this. Because you can, at least for me, it’s like, you taste those wines and I’ll get geeked out about them. And then it’s like, ah, there’s, there’s something else here.

[00:19:06] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: What, what else is there? What else is there? What else is there? Right. Um, so I love hearing about winemakers who are just like, So far down the rabbit hole that they’re just thinking about things in a totally different way, right? They’re like, yeah, this this chemistry doesn’t make sense. But just wait 10 years from now.

[00:19:23] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: You’ll see it 

[00:19:25] A.J. Weinzettel: And yes, you’re describing this I’m like how in the world Does he even like 10 or 15 years? It will be perfect. 

[00:19:35] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah, it’s that’s pretty 

[00:19:37] A.J. Weinzettel: mind 

[00:19:37] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: boggling intense skill when we have to take those lessons from people who Have worked so hard for so long and farmed those plots of land and and you know have access to those vines and they’ve gotten to Taste wines from that plot that are 10 years old and they’re like, you know What my father and my grandfather so on and so forth made these wines and maybe I would change some things about them but There’s something here.

[00:20:00] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Like they figured something out, man. Like, whoa. Like nobody else would have known that this is here, but they figured it out. And so carry that forward while kind of putting your own style on it and your own, you know, techniques and ways of thinking. Uh, but just that whole idea that like, wow. Okay. Like. Te the texture and, and time and sometimes varietal can even go away.

[00:20:23] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And, and the part I love is that the chemistry can go away. Um, if you’re really sensorially, like really involved, like really involved, right? Um, from a sensory process, um, you can kind of forget about a lot of the other kind of productive aspects. Yeah, I think, 

[00:20:39] A.J. Weinzettel: yeah, it’s amazing. Um. The other thing I’m kind of thinking about, you know, you’re taking all the condiments out of the cabinet and growing up, you know, you would all, you were trying to put together four and five course meals.

[00:20:57] A.J. Weinzettel: Did you ever take like everything out of your mom’s cabinets and like sort 

[00:21:01] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: it all out? I would be great on Chopped. You 

[00:21:05] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: would. Honestly? He, he can take anything out of the, out of, he can look in our fridge and I’m like, we have no food, there’s nothing to eat and he’ll go in there and then like 30 minutes later, he’s like, oh, I just whipped this up and it’s like this amazing, it’s something you could have at a restaurant.

[00:21:19] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I’m just like, I can’t do that. I don’t cook that way. I cook and I’m pretty good at it, but like, I do not cook that way. But if he had a basket of stuff and they’re like, here’s um, a pear and some chocolate and some peanut butter and uh, some shrimp or something like that, he would be like, yeah. Oh, I got this.

[00:21:35] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And I would be sheer panic, like, I would just chop it all up and be like, there’s my attempt and he would create, you know, create something. So. It’s impressive. 

[00:21:46] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Good job. That’s, that’s, it’s not, it’s not impressive. That’s easier for me. I’ve been reading a recipe. Yeah, 

[00:21:52] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I’m like reading a recipe or thinking of a way that like my mom has shown me how to do it.

[00:21:56] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And he’s just like, I’m gonna wing it. And I’m just like, that’s so 

[00:21:59] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: stressful to me. Me pulling up a recipe on the internet, and then I’m like staring at a screen, and I’m just like, Instantly depressed and then like my fingers are sticky and I can’t touch the key. I don’t know like Put it throw it away.

[00:22:12] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah Smell it touch it taste it. We’ll put it together. Yeah, that’s 

[00:22:16] A.J. Weinzettel: is that Something that like you got from your mom or you just like hey, I’m just gonna play with this and figure it out Um, 

[00:22:24] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I started doing that stuff. I think as I like wasn’t a super cool kid You know growing up none of us were You find things right and like we didn’t you know, my mom Single mom, um, with me and my sister, um, and it was like, my sister was in, she was like, super athletic, and she was into running, and she did art, and all this kind of stuff, um, and I like, I didn’t like, have a thing, right?

[00:22:53] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And then, um, food, I don’t know, food was, um, like, gourmet food wasn’t a thing I knew anything about, um, you know, we eat like a lot of like, white bread Kraft single sandwiches, you know, um, and like crystal light, right? Like that’s what you drink. A lot of crystal light. Um, and then, uh, condiments is a funny thing because like, you know, and, and even like, like inexpensive food.

[00:23:23] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: It has a lot of really accessible flavors and things that we really love, right? Like you think like ketchup and it’s like, okay, like the acid and the sweetness and, um, you know, even like the like weird umami of like fake cheese. Um. You know, a lot of these flavors and these things are just kind of like ramped up in a direction.

[00:23:41] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: They just need like complexity and balance and, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I think, you know, you start messing around with like pickles and like cheese and all these things and you’re just building like acid on top of fat, on top of umami, on top of, you know, all these other 

[00:23:55] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: elements. He likes a peanut butter and cheese sandwich.

[00:23:57] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: You ever had it? Which really freaks me out. Sourdough, sourdough toast. Out. Peanut butter. And she, I mean, first of all, I’m like metaphysically allergic to peanut butter. It’s like, I’m, I’m spiritually allergic to it. It’s, I can’t stand it, but he puts it together with cheese on a sandwich and I just watch him eat this and he looks like he’s getting so much.

[00:24:15] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And I tried it once. I tried it just the other day. Remember you made me take a bite. It was weird, but I, it, it’s sort of, I didn’t hate the peanut butter as much as I thought. It’s like a very weird thing that you do though, . Okay. So it’s just like a slice of cheddar cheese with peanut butter, sharp, sharp 

[00:24:31] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: cheddar cheese, sharp cheddar, crunchy peanut butter, and then just like toasted, like sourdough bread.

[00:24:37] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Wow. So you get that sour and the fat and the salt. Um. It wasn’t the, 

[00:24:41] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: let’s just say, it wasn’t the weirdest thing I’ve ever had. I was like, this, I don’t think I’ll do this again. And actually great with 

[00:24:45] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: champagne and super filling and hearty and so like for harvest you, you know, you got fat and protein and carbs, um, and, and again, it’s good with champagne.

[00:24:54] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: So why not? Yeah. Very cheap. Yeah. 

[00:24:57] A.J. Weinzettel: I am going to have to try that out. Yeah. , that, that 

[00:25:00] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: sounds 

[00:25:01] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: absolutely spectacular. Michael’s recipe of the week. Peanut butter and cheese sandwich on sour dough. 

[00:25:04] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. And that one was, that was my dad. That’s how he, uh, he put that in me. He was, he was an old school bodybuilder and like a hockey player and so it was always like trying to get protein and stuff in is, that’s something he would do.

[00:25:14] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I guess that’s a way to do it. Yeah, that would be great. 

[00:25:16] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. . Wow.

[00:25:20] A.J. Weinzettel: Um. So you, you’ve been kind of all over a little bit, like you’ve been to Sonoma, Arizona, and all through Napa. What, you know, and here you are also a, a TIE fighter. Like, how in the heck did you even get into wine? 

[00:25:42] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, how did I get into wine? We, I think it was, um, kind of, along with Muay Thai. So I was in Santa Rosa.

[00:25:51] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Right. And, um, didn’t have, you know, exposure to wine at that point. Um, in high school, I think that was like the fourth high school I went to at that point in time. Um… I was not a good student, definitely. Not like a violinist, like a maniac. I 

[00:26:09] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: don’t think anybody was thinking that. Okay, I don’t 

[00:26:11] A.J. Weinzettel: know how that came 

[00:26:12] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: up.

[00:26:12] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, yeah, just like, uh, I don’t know, like, I, you know, it’s like, do you want to go to geometry class or do you want to go, like, hang out in a music room and, like, play with the instruments and goof off? And, you know, I always… Um, hard time sitting still, I think is mostly what it comes to and hard time doing one thing or you know, just, just like, this is your thing.

[00:26:39] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: This is what you do. I always have to have like lots of things and then I always have to see how far they go. So Muay Thai was, a friend introduced me to it and um. Some guy who was like his coach, because he was fighting at the time, just did like his like ninth tour, um, in a country I can’t pronounce, and then he put gloves on me, and then he beat the crap out of me, right?

[00:27:02] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I was like 15, and this like military assassin just like pulled, blew my nose open, you know, like effortlessly, like effortlessly, like he didn’t, probably didn’t mean to, but probably kind of meant to, you know, like a little bit, like, um, And then the next day I came back. And then he was like, he was just like, I never thought, I didn’t think you’d come back.

[00:27:21] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And, you know, it turns out he’s a really, really busy and really high level individual. Um, and so he doesn’t like to spend time with people who aren’t, like, super committed. Um, and so he kind of took me under his wing, and I was with one of my best friends at the time, and so, you know, that just made sense.

[00:27:34] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: You know, um, and then, wine was like, um, Um, just knowing about the proximity of like where we were and in Santa Rosa, like that was kind of out there and I didn’t know anything about it. Um, food, cooking, all that just kind of naturally brought wine to the conversation. So I think I’d buy like cheap Trader Joe’s wine and then I found out about like, you know, wine shops that would have like deals on like Portuguese wine, like cheap Portuguese stuff and um, and how just like delicious these things were.

[00:28:03] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And um, especially when paired with food, like even kind of the most like. Okay thing suddenly had a place, you know So I liked that it seemed like it was a world that was expanding in front of me like, okay Maybe there’s a lot here And then it was like, well, uh, needing a job, and, you know, restaurants, and I’m in California, so I’ve got access to working at these wine bars, and they’ve got super cool, you know, like, rare stuff coming through, right?

[00:28:35] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Like your Hundred Acres, and your Screaming Eagles, and your, you know, Tocalan stuff, like, all that cool stuff. Right. And, um, I just suddenly had, like, access to these things through just, like, busing and then like waiting and then bar back, you know, doing that kind of fun stuff. Um, and then it was like, well, You know, like, like, like I imagine like going to the Sistine Chapel or like whatever and you’re just like, I didn’t know You know, I feel like art’s like that, right?

[00:29:06] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Like you, you hear about art and like there’s people who are like geeky about art and you’re like, okay, whatever. And then like, if you go there and you see it and you’re like, whoa, like we just don’t really have this appreciation as much in our culture or history or whatever. Um, or maybe just access, right?

[00:29:23] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Like even, even it’s like, you know, you got to go pop into it. Uh, museum situation that’s floating through Portland and heading to Seattle, but then you go to Europe and it’s like all around you. That’s just it. Like all the buildings look so cool to a, an American. Yes. 

[00:29:39] A.J. Weinzettel: Ancient. It is. Yeah. When I was in Croatia last week, you know, we were, we had a translator, you know, local person and you know, we were like, Hey, we’re gonna go see, you know, this castle.

[00:29:51] A.J. Weinzettel: Have you heard anything about it? No. They’re everywhere. Yeah. And now it’s just… It’s a castle. Yeah. 

[00:29:57] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. And now I’ve had that experience that you’re talking about when I got out of a cab in Spain and to, um, in Barcelona and just like something that I’d like read about and then just like instantly started sobbing because it was so beautiful and it’s just like that experience is, I think, uh, you can have that over and over and over in Europe, seeing that kind of stuff.

[00:30:19] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. 

[00:30:19] A.J. Weinzettel: Most definitely. Yeah. 

[00:30:20] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. It’s pretty crazy. Very cool. Did I answer a question? I don’t know. Yeah, you did. You got there. How did you get into wine? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like an amalgamation. I think it was a lot. Yeah. It was a lot. Yeah, and your uncle too. You were spending time with him. Um, my uncle in California.

[00:30:35] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: So he collected, um, Um, a lot of Napa stuff. He had a lot of old, um, like first growth kind of stuff that was gifts that he was given. Um, and then I got, you know, I did what I do with everything, which is like, I just spent all my time like researching and, you know, studying all this stuff. And I was like, you know, I think you might want to like start…

[00:30:55] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Cracking into some of these man. I don’t think they go forever. And so like I got to do that and then it just felt like one thing led to another and got in touch with Um, Chet and Martha Lena and you know got to jump in and do some cool stuff with them um And kind of kind of putz around the Napa scene for a while and um Discovered that I’m a little bit of a, of a hippie and, uh, you know, um, kind of dug the Sonoma side of things a little more.

[00:31:28] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: You know, I, I felt like I had really quick access to seeing a lot of cool operations and, and really fine wines and, um, and then I, I sort of… Noting the automation of a lot of things, um, and especially in Napa. I mean, everything is so, um, Yeah, there’s just a lot of money, you know, and there’s a lot at stake, you know, for wines that are, um, in auction or going to Hong Kong or, you know, what have you.

[00:31:52] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And, and, and I saw all that goes into that and I’m like, wow, this is incredible. Um, and then aspects also felt like just really sterile. Um, seeing like automated punch down machines and like automated pump over machines and you know, all this kind of stuff and being in like facilities where it’s like, Oh, like there’s like a consultant and they like come and check in on the wines and they taste them or do the blends.

[00:32:15] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: But it, you know, it was just sort of not my scene. Um, and then, uh, jumped over to Sonoma and then, you know, uh, Wine making internships and you know harvest internships and all that kind of stuff and and just like right place right time and just Got to get my hands dirty Making Pinot Noir and Zinfandel and Chardonnay and all the fun stuff and got to taste a lot of those wines and they were you know 12 percent alcohol and Um, just really inspired by, um, the freshness and, and, and the, the, the sense of place that all the wines had and then I got to quickly kind of see the expansion of the industry in Sonoma and then where I felt kind of the best wines were continually coming from versus like kind of what the market was doing or demanding and, and, and it, it just all was so like.

[00:33:03] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: cool and complex and volatile. Like everyone was operating at the edge of this, like, volatility constantly. And I’m like, oh, this is, I could, I could hang here. This seems fun. And it is fun. Yeah. 

[00:33:18] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, it is fun. Um, okay, so as this wine is getting a little bit more room temperature, I’m, oh my 

[00:33:26] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: gosh. 

[00:33:28] A.J. Weinzettel: Uh, you know, earlier I said that That raciness was kind of, you know, subdued a little bit, but wow.

[00:33:35] A.J. Weinzettel: Now, at room temperature, I mean, it’s just, it’s just singing. Thank you. And it’s just, it’s, it’s, again, it’s not a slap you in the face kind of thing, and I don’t want a slap me in the face kind of thing. I want, I want something that has some character to it, and it just, it grabs me, and it’s, it’s there immediately.

[00:33:53] A.J. Weinzettel: So I, I just wanted to remark on it now that it’s 

[00:33:56] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: gotten room temperature a little bit more. Thank you. Um, yeah, this, this, this one. I’m sorry. No, no, no, no. Go for it. Um, there was so much, uh, like grip. I felt like that the wine had when we were tasting it, um, out of the punch ins. Um, so we had these three punch ins and, and poking through and I think we, uh, you named them all.

[00:34:17] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I named 

[00:34:17] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: them all. Hogwarts characters. Harry Potter characters. There was Luna and Hedwig and Dobby. And Dobby. Were the three punch ins. Nice. Cause I’m, Yeah, Super geeky about that. 

[00:34:28] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: That’s not a bad thing. Not a bad thing at all. Um, but yeah, just, just, just poking through and it, you know, it was sort of neat to see the same lot of Chardonnay.

[00:34:36] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I mean, it just treated the exact same way and just put into neutral pungents. And then you started to see the different expression, you know, especially with the native ferment and, and, and maybe different amounts, um, or strengths of lees. And, and wow, do they taste different when you’re able to just taste them right there side by side.

[00:34:56] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, but something that was really consistent throughout all three punch ins is there was this thing of like sucking on a rock. Like there was a textural element there that left your mouth dry and, and, and just gave this sense of like just having a mouthful of rocks. Right. So there’s this cool texture.

[00:35:14] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, and so I think a lot of what I was following in this one in particular was like, I want to see how this texture plays out, you know? Um. And I thought it would be fun, especially because the wine is so ethereal, and so not doing any lees stirring, letting that native ferment take place, neutral punch ins, I felt like Well, one, I felt I was scared because I’m like, this is really easy to mess up.

[00:35:42] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Like, I’m riding this crazy edge of like revealing everything for the sake of preserving these like crunchy, subtle textures. Um, so that was, you know, scary, but also, um, super fun to, to follow and just see, um, you know, what the wine wanted to be and what direction it wanted to go. Very cool. 

[00:36:02] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. Oh, last year when I did the podcast.

[00:36:06] A.J. Weinzettel: I, with married couples, I did a, like a Newlywed Game little segment, and I didn’t prepare very much. So if you want to participate, I have one question that the both of you 

[00:36:17] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: have to answer. Yeah, yeah, don’t look at my answer. I’m ready. Okay, well, so. Here we go. Don’t cheat. 

[00:36:23] A.J. Weinzettel: Don’t cheat. And the reason I ask this is I asked Jessica and Peyton West of Approachment, so I asked the question to.

[00:36:32] A.J. Weinzettel: to Jessica. And the answer that, uh, she gave just was like, Payton was like, 

[00:36:38] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: what? 

[00:36:40] A.J. Weinzettel: And I love the reaction. So, 

[00:36:43] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: that’s, this guy loves splitting couples up. It’s super fun. If you ask him 

[00:36:48] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: about dates or anything, he’s gonna fail. 

[00:36:51] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Nope, 

[00:36:51] A.J. Weinzettel: nope, it’s 

[00:36:52] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: not 

[00:36:52] A.J. Weinzettel: that. So, here’s the question. And then, you know, both of you have to answer, you know, what, uh, so first, Michael, I’ll ask you first.

[00:37:00] A.J. Weinzettel: Alright, it’s the middle of the night. The phone is ringing, and uh, you know, Mariel is in jail. What crime did she commit? 

[00:37:11] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Oh. Um. I immediately thought, like, okay, this is, this is, this makes sense so far.

[00:37:21] A.J. Weinzettel: Oh, it sounds like there might be a lot of things that this could be. 

[00:37:25] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, kidnapped a baby. Kidnapped a baby. Kidnapped a baby. That’s 100 

[00:37:29] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: percent true. Kidnapped a baby. Oh, wow. 100 percent true. I love babies. We were literally at a restaurant last night and there was this baby. sitting a couple, not sitting, it was a baby with his family, a couple of tables away.

[00:37:43] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, and I was like telling everybody that I was with, I was like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna have to go see that baby. Like I worked in the pediatric emergency department. I really love children. And so, um. I have. Yeah, that’s a hundred percent. I would, it’s code pink. I would get very nice, there’d be an amber alert out for somebody’s child, and I would be behind bars.

[00:38:02] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: That guts. You don’t have to play it out. So , and it would be, it would probably be 

[00:38:07] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: like a six month old baby with a very round head. That 

[00:38:10] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: smelled delicious. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. . All right. 

[00:38:13] A.J. Weinzettel: See you. You nailed it. Good job. Nailed it. Yep. All right, so the same question to you, if middle of the night phone rings, Michael’s in jail.

[00:38:23] A.J. Weinzettel: What crime did he commit? Um,

[00:38:29] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: probably, um, lighting something on fire that shouldn’t be on fire. Okay. Um, recently he, we had, um, to like. We had a Christmas tree in our backyard that needed to be disposed of and we live in Tigard like in a very similar neighborhood to what you live in like close in, it’s not like we’re out in the country or anything.

[00:38:51] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: We had a fire in the backyard and he thought, uh, I’m just gonna throw the dead Christmas tree on top of it and it went whoosh and went up. So I think probably arson, um. 

[00:39:05] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Okay, so what the the one time

[00:39:11] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: That’s the first time it happened. 

[00:39:13] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Oh, yeah, but you really did it there’s like the trees buffets 

[00:39:17] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: started to get I’ve actually never seen anything like it 

[00:39:21] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: It was so he just was like and then he just grabbed my hand and we sat down They’re staring at it because we both didn’t, we didn’t know what to do.

[00:39:28] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And I was like, Oh my God, the fire department’s going to go. So I think it would be that 

[00:39:33] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: probably. We all deserve second chances. Of course. Yeah. All right. So what I’m 

[00:39:38] A.J. Weinzettel: hearing here is both of you are going to work together as a great team. You’re going to create a fire, create a diversion so 

[00:39:45] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: you can go steal a baby.

[00:39:46] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: There you go. 100%. That’s a nice positive twist. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. 

[00:39:50] A.J. Weinzettel: All right. Should we go on to the next wine? Yeah. 

[00:39:54] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, maybe you want to cover Chob since we just kind of talked about that. Yeah, maybe.

[00:40:02] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, so yeah, Chob, uh, you know, too much to say. But that, that, that really was… Um, yeah, I’ve loved the shop lines for a long time. And, everywhere just from the, I mean the whole range, and the accessibility, and the polish, and the, the thought. Um, but uh, this idea of, again, sort of this winemaker, I, if you look at the winemakers I love, they’re, you’ll, they’re, a lot of them I feel like kind of shy away from numbers and chemistry, right?

[00:40:36] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Right. And like I said, that just works easier for me. I can’t follow a recipe to save my life. Um, plus numbers stress me out. I think it’s because I was never good at math. I don’t know. Um, and so, like with our numbers this year for our gamay that we brought in, it was like my yans were really low. Um, like, uh, a hundred and fifty percent lower than you might want, right?

[00:41:00] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, if you’re listening to like any reputable institution that tells you how to ferment things. Right. Um. And so, like, I had a buddy. Like, the camera’s just like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do about it? I’m like, nothing, because then I’ll get stressed out. And so, um, I think that’s my way of, like, not taking the math test.

[00:41:19] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Right? Like, skipping class and not taking the math test. Um, so just to know that we sort of have this, like, compendium of, like, a lot of, like, institutionalized sort of, Like, a compilation of data, and data points. And over time, we’re like, this is what you look at. Um, and that’s done wonders, to create better wine, just everywhere in the world, sharing that data, sharing that information.

[00:41:51] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, I feel like, that doesn’t help you make this wine. You know, um. And then it was like, oh, okay, like, it’s just a different recipe. It’s just like, okay, it’s not going by a recipe. It’s going by some other type of recipe that doesn’t rely on 

[00:42:12] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: measuring and on, like, your sensory information to make decisions.

[00:42:17] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: But I liked, I liked the idea that, you know, that’s, that’s naturally how I think about things too. Again, I think, I don’t, maybe it’s just like avoiding, like what people want me to do or something and I’m like, I’ll find a way around it.

[00:42:32] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: But I’m usually like pretty good at like navigating around things and like finding a different path and then Figuring out that I’ll like there was a lot of winemakers out there that naturally thought like that as well It’s like okay, like there’s hope for me Like I don’t have to make wine, you know based off of these things I can you know, maybe make wine based off of Um, having a deep library of textures and then using that library of textures to remind myself when texture accented freshness to enhance perception of acidity.

[00:43:02] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And now you’re like, Oh, now I’ve got some room to play. And that’s what I like. I like room to play. I don’t like to have the right answer. I’m like, I’m in the range, you know what I mean? Which is like Muay Thai too. It’s like you’re fighting, right? So it’s like, it’s not like if you go into a fight and you’re like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna jab.

[00:43:17] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And I’m gonna. You’re going to get beat up. Um, but if you learn the interplay and you learn the, you know, kind of ever changing, um, chaos of order, right? This, this continual play. And for me, like, that’s what wine is and, and wine making. And it’s like, it’s, it’s seeing the opposite element in the element you’re currently working with, not trying to like standardize that element.

[00:43:46] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um. So I felt that there was a lot of room to play with a lot of the wines that I felt I enjoyed the best. And I’m like, well, that seems like counter, like, intuitive to, like, everything I learned growing up. It was like, there’s a right way to do things, and if you want to do things on a high level, like, you gotta go to school, and you, you know, you gotta learn things this way, and, um, And it was like, but, but wait, like these guys are making something and they’re not going by those rules, right?

[00:44:13] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: So it’s like, well, that’s pretty cool. That 

[00:44:14] A.J. Weinzettel: is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s that is awesome They’re you know talking about Muay Thai. Um, I Read a description of it and I’m like, why aren’t you using this to talk about your wines, right? So it is known as the art of eight limbs referring to the eight points of contact that are used to strike the opponent Yeah And I’m like, ooh, like, you know, the art of, you know, eight sensories, referring to the eight points of contact that like really grab the, the wine.

[00:44:47] A.J. Weinzettel: Kind of sewer. Yeah, 

[00:44:49] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: it’s like overwhelming making a mental marketing note right now to steal this from you. 

[00:44:53] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Okay, good. I hope you do Yeah, 

[00:44:55] A.J. Weinzettel: I was thinking about it. I was like, yeah, that 

[00:44:57] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: that’s perfect tie in. Yeah, that’s great Yeah, I thought you’d say beat people up if they don’t buy the wine. Well, I mean 

[00:45:03] A.J. Weinzettel: you do that too As a last 

[00:45:06] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: resort, right?

[00:45:06] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I’m the muscle, obviously, in this relationship, so it would be me breaking kneecaps and, you know. 

[00:45:11] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, there you go. And you’re breaking the kneecaps, and then in the middle of the night, you’re just setting arson to their house. 

[00:45:19] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Oh, Lord. We sound way more exciting than we actually are. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s 

[00:45:23] A.J. Weinzettel: what you’re supposed to do.

[00:45:25] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. 

[00:45:25] A.J. Weinzettel: I mean, we live in the world of social media. 

[00:45:29] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Also, can we talk about how much better this bottle of Chavez than our Chardonnay? Can you stop? A lot better. You know, I, 

[00:45:36] A.J. Weinzettel: I think it depends on a person’s taste. Yeah. 

[00:45:38] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. But this does, this, this, It’s pretty incredible. It’s wild. It’s wild. I mean, 

[00:45:44] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: you, you smell like chamomile tea and then you get this like aspirin and then you know that the wine has age and you know that it’s not lacking freshness and that’s that order chaos interplay that tells you the other one’s there and enhances it.

[00:46:00] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I feel like this could go for another 10 years. Easily. I mean, you can 

[00:46:05] A.J. Weinzettel: just look at the color of it and know that it still has a bunch of time on it. It’s crazy. Yeah. Yummy. So one of the books, it sounds like, that you’ve really enjoyed over the years is, uh, The Art of War. 

[00:46:20] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yep. Yeah, a lot of, um, I don’t know.

[00:46:23] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I’m a nerd. Uh, all, all the, a lot of Eastern philosophy. A lot of, um, a lot of books on, like, ancient sword fighting techniques and, um, you know, you go and you, you, read books on technique and sword fighting, and then you read philosophies of the time. And then, you know, a lot of the people who taught sword fighting were also philosophers themselves.

[00:46:50] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And you’d see the range, and you’d see the power of an idea, and you’d see the power of a sword that’s been forged, you know, through tens of thousands of folds. It’s just the clashing and the range of all that, that like grips everything, um, and it, I just think it’s, um, There’s some good principles for life.

[00:47:17] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: There. I 

[00:47:18] A.J. Weinzettel: completely agree. And the reason I brought it up is I was curious if you read the book, The War 

[00:47:24] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: of Art. No. I like it. Exactly. 

[00:47:29] A.J. Weinzettel: It’s, and it’s, it’s a short read. It’s easy, but it is all about trying to get the expression of what you’re wanting to put out there into the world and the struggle that you have of like, is it good enough?

[00:47:41] A.J. Weinzettel: Is it not good enough? And just that constant battle of our internal selves. Of trying to bring art into the world. Hmm. And so I, you know, just thought I might bring that to your attention. 

[00:47:52] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah, it was fascinating. I’m sure you’d love that. Yeah, you’re going to lose me for a while. Yeah.

[00:47:59] A.J. Weinzettel: I think there might be a bottle of wine involved and like it’s raining out. It’s after 

[00:48:03] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: hardest. That’s really cool. And like, I super resonate with that because something that’s been, um, I can’t even fully articulate all the things that I think about what I’m doing. And it became like really. Um, I don’t know, like obvious, like it just clicked all of a sudden and it was like, whoa, like this crazy internal struggle that I go through to um, constantly satisfy whatever it is that, you know, allows me to feel at peace after I’ve, Thought about something every way I can possibly think about it.

[00:48:34] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I don’t really want anyone else to go through that. Like, that’s, that’s, that’s the, the, you know, that’s the, the, the, the blessing and the curse of, uh, being behind the scenes. Um, but then once like the wine gets out, it’s sort of like, um, we just, we’re just happy to share it and want people to find something in it that drives their own.

[00:49:00] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Inspirations and and if it’s just a a meal or if it’s a you know, whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah 

[00:49:08] A.J. Weinzettel: No, that’s that is very cool You know speaking of art and expression and trying to get your stuff out there One of your labels, you know, how many times did it get rejected by the TTB? 

[00:49:22] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: like six Something like that.

[00:49:24] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: It was something wild and it When you, yeah, because our original, the Syrah that we made, the label that we tried to put on it, there’s lots of rules about if you bring, you know, fruit over from Washington into Oregon, obviously you can’t use a sub AVA. Um, so we would just slap, like, Washington Syrah in there and, like, called it a day.

[00:49:44] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: But they’re very particular. About, you know, how you can write things on there and every time you submit it, it takes another couple of weeks and so, we originally had a totally different plan I think for that and then, um, we had a picture from when we were first making Wine in the Garage. And then we just like slapped that on there in a cartoon form and that was, and it’s cool.

[00:50:08] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: So we just went with that. 

[00:50:09] A.J. Weinzettel: So it got rejected because of wording and not of picture or? There was 

[00:50:14] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: wording originally and 

[00:50:15] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: then, yeah, a lot of it was I think the technical information and not being able to use the sub ABA and not being, and then it’s like, well, if I can’t use a sub ABA, then it sort of feels weird to put the vineyard on there and it just felt.

[00:50:26] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: You know, I don’t know, it just wasn’t, wasn’t working and it’s, it was such another fun lesson and good lesson in that I’d, I’d spent so much time sort of developing these labels and, and, you know, working on the design concepts and, um, and then it was like months and months of work and then it was like, it didn’t mean anything, which was such, such a good, you know, I’ll be like Muay Thai back in this, it’s like, you can’t, before you fight, You’re doing all this training And then you get into a fight and you realize how much doesn’t apply anymore to what you were just doing.

[00:51:02] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And a lot of that is like there’s, there’s additional energy here, right? Like you’re not just mechanically doing something. Um, and so like making those labels and working on design concepts, I, I was like repetitiously, like endlessly, like mechanically doing something without realizing what it was going to have to go through in order for it to actually become a thing.

[00:51:23] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, and. And, and the lesson was that, like, Right. I shouldn’t be spending any time on it, actually, and then, like, by the time we’re ready to bottle, we’ll just kind of boom, boom, boom. And so it was a, it was actually a good lesson in like efficiency. Like I don’t need to be racking my brain over this. Um, and to kind of simplify that part of the process.

[00:51:43] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:51:44] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. It’s good to learn some, some things like 

[00:51:45] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: that. 

[00:51:46] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Yeah. We’re both, I was learning from the ground up. I certainly, you know, I do a lot of like the compliance side of stuff and talking to people and this is all things that I have learned just like. On the go. Like I have no background in that.

[00:52:02] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. So it’s just 

[00:52:03] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: like, it’s fun that way. Right. I get 

[00:52:05] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: a little nervous, I get a little nervous that I’m gonna mess something up, like I don’t 

[00:52:09] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: wanna send up. I’d be nervous too. I mean, that’s the legal stuff, . Exactly, 

[00:52:13] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: exactly. I don’t wanna send the wrong paper to the wrong person and like make sure I like, you know, pay the man and all the things.

[00:52:19] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: So , um, yeah, it’s a little nerve wracking, but it’s uh, it’s fun. 

[00:52:25] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: You do a really good job at though. Thank you, babe. Yep. 

[00:52:28] A.J. Weinzettel: So how nerve wracking was it, you know, getting, you know, sterilizing your feet and Michael carrying you down the stairs to do foot stomping? This 

[00:52:37] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: guy. Yeah. Um, yeah, he’s like, you have to take your toenail polish off and, um, then we’re going to dunk your feet in sulfur.

[00:52:45] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And then I’m going to piggyback you down, up from upstairs to downstairs. And then I’m going to gently place you in there to do the visage. And I was like, okay, you know. He, um, 

[00:52:59] A.J. Weinzettel: it was all that, that training that he has done. He’s like, 

[00:53:02] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: we got this. Let’s do this. Um, you know, like we want a clean product and so, you know, I think that, uh, he definitely is very focused on that and I, yeah, it’s important.

[00:53:14] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And that’s why we got, you know, this beautiful clarity of wine and all the things. And so you heard 

[00:53:19] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: the condiment story, you know, my brain works like I’m, I’m, um, yeah, probably. Yeah. But maybe not for what, what we want to do. Yeah. You know, but probably. We don’t, 

[00:53:31] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: you know, we don’t, we don’t make a lot of wine, and so we’re pretty meticulous, I think, when it comes down to it, just because, um.

[00:53:39] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: If one little thing messed up our whole production, that’s our whole production. We don’t have like barrels and barrels and barrels to rely on. And so I think we’re both, you know, at this point, I’ve definitely learned to be meticulous as well. And like, you know, when I go and I do punch downs myself and he’s like, make sure you wipe it all.

[00:53:57] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And I’m like looking for every. little thing that could be on there because I don’t want him to go after me and I’m not there and he’ll be like I found this one smudge 

[00:54:06] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Oh no! And I’ll be 

[00:54:09] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: like, I failed! So I’m very, I’ve learned to be meticulous as well, which is Not my natural nature, I would say. Yeah, it’s 

[00:54:19] A.J. Weinzettel: good to be meticulous.

[00:54:20] A.J. Weinzettel: I mean, I know that there’s one winery in the valley that they will not allow their hoses to be, you know, drug along the floor. Yeah, right. So, I mean, it’s just, 

[00:54:31] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: yeah, everybody’s got their thing and their way of like making sure that they are making what they want to make. And I think like there’s just a wide range of that.

[00:54:41] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And, 

[00:54:41] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: um, there’s a lot of, a lot. A lot of attention to detail so that we can be really hands off with it. You know, there’s certain aspects that are really, maybe slightly more hands on, like, like, you know, pillaging through, you know, the first part of primary, um, rather than like transitioning into punchdowns or something.

[00:55:02] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: But, you know, I like, um, feeling the temperature of the ferment, you know, knowing that the temperature is varying in different areas. Um, and. And being able to feel that with your leg and with your feet and, um, you know, for me, I feel like if I go to a punch down early on, I don’t really know where the most active parts of the ferment are.

[00:55:20] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I don’t really know how much I’m spreading around the more active yeast and into what areas. So I could be pocketing more areas of, you know, CO2 ultimately, and I might have more reduction or all these things. And so being able to just feel it and, you know, that just works, works better. for me. 

[00:55:36] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I couldn’t hop in there this year though.

[00:55:37] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I’m not tall enough. Um, we are using a huge fermenter and if I got in there, it would probably be up to my neck. Yeah. It did get 

[00:55:44] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: to the point where I’m like, this is a lot of CO2. But at that point, the, the heat distribution is better and it’s not as much of a concern. Once it gets active. Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that is 

[00:55:55] A.J. Weinzettel: great.

[00:55:55] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. So we dive into the third wine real quick. Yeah. 

[00:55:57] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Okay. So we’re doing the Gam Gams this year, and um, Gamay, maybe my, I don’t know, I think my first like love affair, love affairs were Riesling and 

[00:56:13] A.J. Weinzettel: Gamay. I thought about getting a Gamay out, and I’m like, oh, but you really like Chardonnay too, and I’m like, I was torn, Gamay, Chardonnay, 

[00:56:24] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: ugh.

[00:56:26] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: So again, you know, and obviously another, um, legend in the game, uh, LaPierre, you know, his kids are, have taken over the project, um, but just, um, I think what I really love about this one in particular is the complete sense of freshness, the interplay between the, um, I hate to use the word cleanliness, preciseness, and the volatility, um, I love that interplay, I, I will say that I’m not a big Britanomyces, a real big reduction, real, you know, anything in any one direction.

[00:57:00] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: But when they just play back and forth and it’s in balance, I just see it as like, so, so cool to walk that line. La Pierre does it effortlessly. The wines feel ethereal, but they feel compact. And it’s that compactedness and a light package that really inspires me for our Gamay. Um, we’re going to be somewhere in between 11 and 12 percent on our Gamay.

[00:57:19] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, like I said, flavors were there early, so we had this full spectrum of really, really bright, crunchy red fruits that I didn’t want to lose. Um, and so I’m really focusing on that kind of weightlessness with that compactedness so that you can have a low alcohol wine and have it not feel too light. Um, and I love Pierre’s, you know, that’s the man.

[00:57:38] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I love the nose on this. It’s beautiful.

[00:57:49] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Now I’ll say it. Yummy. Yeah. Super yummy. Yeah. It is. Love that stuff. That’s the best word for wine. It really is. I mean, if anything, if we’ve, what I want to make is yummy. True. I mean, truly, like that’s such a, a childlike, like obvious appeal to us is yummy. I remember like going through and making this like chart of like, okay, like.

[00:58:14] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: It’s really easy to talk about the things you want to make in a wine. It’s really hard to implement exactly what you’re thinking about. So you might say, like, I want a wine that’s complex, and then… But how much complexity relative to, like, accessibility and yumminess do you want? Because complexity to a certain point limits yumminess and obviousness and accessibility.

[00:58:35] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And so it’s like, with our Pinot Noir, something that I really wanted was a really delicate profile, but I wanted complexity. And in some ways I feel like the complexity ran away a little bit. Um, and so… Yeah, just really trying to pinpoint, like, first, second, third, like, what’s the most important. Right. And, I think that, on the nose on this, right, you get that sensorial, like, that complexity on the nose, but there’s something that’s telling you, like, this is gonna be yummy.

[00:59:02] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And then, reaffirmed on the palate, yumminess, yumminess, yumminess. Right. And then you sort of have this moment where we could just move on, or we could sit there and talk about it. And I, I want people to be able to drink our wines, and, and if you want to look for things, I think there’s cool Easter eggs in there.

[00:59:20] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: If you don’t, I hope we hit that yumminess factor so that you can just do your thing. Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:59:24] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Exactly. I feel like there’s a bit of a bell curve, too, with how you talk about wine. Like, you start out being like, I like this. It’s yummy. And then as you learn more about wine, you start to, like, talk more seriously about it, and are giving tasting notes in your, like, pencil shavings and forest floor.

[00:59:39] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: And then you kind of go back down the other side of the bell curve to, like, This is yummy. Yeah. It’s like, you don’t feel the need to kind of, like, expand on it anymore when, like, you just like something. And I think that’s, like, a good place to be. So, yeah, I feel like I’ll drink a lot of things. I’ll be like, Yum!

[00:59:55] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yum. And that’s it. And that’s all I’ve got to say about it, but I like it, you know. And that’s all that’s needed. 

[00:59:59] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah, exactly. Well, I find there’s wines that are really cool to taste. And like, I’m, I, I love tasting Barolo, you know, um, Elvio Coño. I really love their Barolos. Um, but, and Barbarescos and, and these wines.

[01:00:15] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I think I love to taste those wines even more than I love drinking them. Um, because there’s so much complexity and so, and sometimes it’s just like, I’m like, I’m overwhelmed. You know, like I’ll have a half glass of it and I almost can’t sit back and just, just drink it. Um, but Gamay has that cool accessibility there where I feel like it just thrives in this place of, um, yummy and accessibility.

[01:00:40] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And then you can kind of go from there if you want. Agreed. Yeah. 

[01:00:44] A.J. Weinzettel: No, that, that is absolutely amazing. Going back to Meticulous for a little bit. I need to know more about this hand de stimmer that 

[01:00:53] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: y’all created. Oh 

[01:00:54] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: lord, that was, uh… He was like… 

[01:00:58] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Did I ballpark us at like three hours? 

[01:01:00] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: You ballparked at three hours.

[01:01:02] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Well, he was up really late one night watching this family with a basket that had been woven probably by somebody’s grandma back in the day over a fermenter and they’re rolling the grapes along this basket, but there’s like ten family members doing it, and it’s hand stemming the grapes that way. And so he wakes up the next day and he’s like, I’ve got an idea and we’re going to hand to stem these.

[01:01:24] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: We’re going to do it just like they did in Savoie in this big basket. And I was like, yeah, where are we going to get a big basket? It’s 3am 

[01:01:30] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: YouTube. I’m looking at family videos in Savoie. Yeah. 

[01:01:34] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, yeah. 

[01:01:35] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Super cool. It’s so cool. It’s a cool video. So cool. I’m like, first of all, where do I get a small village of people who like wanted like that?

[01:01:43] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: But like, that’s normal. You know, like you see that? That’s so cool. It is so 

[01:01:48] A.J. Weinzettel: cool, yeah. And overseas, I mean, everybody is a community. Yeah. Everybody 

[01:01:51] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: helps out. Yeah. And so, you know, our version was closet made racks that we zip tied together and put over a fermenter and rolled the grapes over. With our hands.

[01:02:03] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: It took a long time. It took a long time. He was like, I think it’s gonna be like, it’ll take like two hours. It was like eight, eight hours or something ridiculous like that. It would took us forever, but you know, I think The Pino speaks for itself. It’s got really like Nice, delicate flavors because of that treatment.

[01:02:20] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Like I’m going to attribute it only to that because I have to, because it took so flipping long. It was 

[01:02:27] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: only that. We did half and then we bajajed the shit out of the second half. Yeah. After that third bottle of champagne kicked in, I think we’re done doing this process, but it was super cool to play with this idea.

[01:02:39] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And again, maybe there was too much volatility and complexity in that one and not enough just like accessibility in the mid palette, but like. Um, what happens when, like, with a de stemmer, you get so much more uniform, um, you know, tearing of the, the stems. Um, and so, there’s a lot of different ways at diff, at literally every part of the winemaking process where you can look at homogenization versus non homogenization.

[01:03:06] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Right. Um, and I started, you know, listening to a lot more people who were looking at it through the lens of non homogenization, and dealing with, like, All of the factors, right? And so it was like, okay, by handy stemming, like Everything is being de stemmed differently. Um, and it’s sort of like, you know, that’s, that’s cool.

[01:03:27] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Like, let’s see what that does, you know. Um, and sort of, what parts of the process do we like to be a little more uniform about? What parts do we like to… Um, be less uniform about, um, like where does it make sense? Where does it not make sense? Um, it’s a really cool process, you know, even just being connected, you know, to it.

[01:03:46] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: We’re warming it up. We’re touching it. We’re helping it to start that ferment. Um. And you get a sense of the ripeness, you get a sense of the varied ripeness, the cluster uniformity, or the range of clusters. Um, and so it’s just another way to sort of look at the range of possibilities, um, that we can kind of incorporate.

[01:04:04] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: It 

[01:04:04] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: ended up being fun. It was just a long process. Well, yeah, 

[01:04:07] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: and it’s a great story. Yeah, it is 

[01:04:09] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: such a great story. It 

[01:04:10] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: is 

[01:04:11] A.J. Weinzettel: a good story. Um, so one of the things that I, uh, that I noticed, like, on your website, Um, you know, for people to come. You know, have a taste of your wine. You bring wine to the people. Mm hmm So you come, you know, you go to the people and like you don’t even necessarily bring all of your own wines You bring other wines like you did today.

[01:04:32] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, and that is such a cool little twist and It’s it’s really amazing. What What made you think of doing that? 

[01:04:42] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I think it’s just like inspirations for us like obviously, um, you know Logistically, part of it is due to the fact that we have a single wine that we made in 2022 that we focused all of our efforts on, which was the Chardonnay.

[01:04:55] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, but we want to put it in context with other things that we love or that inspire us. Um, and I think that’s a good way for people to kind of get more exposure to things that we like and kind of understand who we are and like what we’re inspired by and what kind of drives us. And so I think to have people taste things that we love.

[01:05:15] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um. It’s just kind of a fun way to, you know, explore a little bit and then, you know, I think even if we had six different wines that we made, we might still do it because there’s just so much that we love to drink and like, we want to share it with people. I don’t know if that’s what you think about it.

[01:05:31] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: It’s, 

[01:05:32] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: it’s, you know, it’s, it’s incredibly, um, difficult to get access to, uh,

[01:05:44] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, and so, you know, one, if I’m, if I’m going to pop a bottle that we really love, first and foremost, like that’s what I’m trying to do with our wines is just share something I love. Um, and so I obviously have these other producers who are just way better at what they do at this point. And I, I would love to share that with other people.

[01:06:05] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, And like I said, it’s a continual learning, you know, continually tasting, um, I feel like it’s, it’s personal education for us every single time, as much as I think, like, I have a pretty good, um, memory of things I’ve tasted. 

[01:06:19] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: No, he has, like, an insane memory of things that he’s tasted. 

[01:06:24] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: And so it’s, it’s really great then to…

[01:06:27] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Taste something that’s had time to evolve for a few more years and reference that last point where I tasted it. And then it’s like, whoa, like I didn’t see this part coming or, oh yeah, this is exactly what I thought. Oh, okay. So like when they talked about kind of doing things this way, maybe this is what I’m tasting.

[01:06:40] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Maybe that’s how it translated. Um, and so it’s, you know, just this, this ever evolving game. And, and yeah, just being able to share things, like I said, we don’t, we don’t make very much. Um, maybe. This will change a little bit as we go forward, but I think just sharing things we love in general is something you and I are really passionate about, you know?

[01:06:58] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: It’s always fun to slip in. We like, love 

[01:07:00] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: having people over. We love, like, opening wine for people. I think that’s, like, where our souls meet is, like, just kind of entertaining and, like, showing people that we love them by, like, showering them with food and wine. Right. Like, it’s just a lot of what we love to do.

[01:07:15] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: So. 

[01:07:15] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. And maybe, you know, I think, I mean, I think most people have an ad. A lot of these wines, you know, and, and exactly. And so it’s like I at some point learned about them from other people and it’s like, well, love to pass that on and share that to other people. And then maybe that sparked something for them and they’re like, wow, like now I think about wine kind of differently or maybe I do like this style of wine or maybe a, you know, maybe I, I, I like reduction or maybe I like this varietal or maybe I’ll go visit this place or.

[01:07:45] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: You know, you know, what have you. Right, right, right. 

[01:07:48] A.J. Weinzettel: No, that, that is great. Yeah. Alright, so I have some rapid fire questions. Ooh, fun. And then we’ll reveal the blind wine after that. Okay. Cool. Alright. So, favorite artist to listen to during harvest? Ooh, 

[01:08:03] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: you go first. Rage Against the Machine. Ooh. Speaks to my heart right there.

[01:08:11] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, What did I listen to the other day driving out to the vineyard that I was like, oh, this is great. Um,

[01:08:20] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I think, I mean, a lot of it for me is Radiohead. Um, and now, um, I can’t remember what I was listening to, so that’s gone. Radiohead? 

[01:08:29] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Rage Against the 

[01:08:30] A.J. Weinzettel: Machine. Yeah. Polar opposites. Yeah. Favorite indulgent food? 

[01:08:36] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um. Sandwiches. That’s indulgent for you? Yeah. I mean, a lot. A lot of sandwiches. Oh, you’re saying, like, you would like to put in…

[01:08:44] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: The amount. The amount. Oh, you’re saying, like, it has to be, like, a cheesecake on top of, like, a pie or, like… Well, 

[01:08:49] A.J. Weinzettel: like, when you’re, like, I… So, for example, you know, one person answered, it was, like, I love champagne, potato chips, creme 

[01:08:58] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: fraiche, and caviar. Yeah, that’s delicious. Is that indulgent? Yeah. Caviar? We might be…

[01:09:05] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Heedness. We are heedness. That’s for sure. Um, he makes a really amazing duck breast. Yeah. 

[01:09:12] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: That I really enjoy. Okay, wait. Let’s linger on this for a second. I like this now. Okay. Now that I have contacts for Indulge. Um. Yeah. I mean, 

[01:09:19] A.J. Weinzettel: other, other winemakers have said like smash burgers. 

[01:09:23] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Smash burgers.

[01:09:24] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Chips. I bought you a lot of chips. I’m a snacker. He is such a snacker. Yeah. You know, I just like, I like to have a poke and then a, I don’t like when like flavors stop. Right. So like, when… I don’t like when flavors stop. I sound like I’m five. Do you guys like when flavors stop? I don’t. That makes me sad.

[01:09:44] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Makes me very sad. I don’t think they should do that. Shouldn’t make it that way. Yeah, like when flavors stop, um, like, like, like, if I say it, it will be more true. Like, okay, like, um, cabernet and, and, and like steak, like is just like, okay for me. Cause for me, the flavors stop. It’s like complimentary things.

[01:10:08] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I like a lot of contrasting things. Um, and so, yeah, you mentioned like the potato chips and the champagne and the textures and the flavors. I like when you can keep, like, as soon as something tastes the same more than a couple of times, I’m just done. Yeah. I’ve gotta move on to something else. Like, 

[01:10:22] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I feel like you prefer like a burger with white burgundy.

[01:10:25] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. And like, 

[01:10:26] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: which is very Yeah, to like pop off the pickles. Okay. So I like a lot of like palette resets and 

[01:10:32] A.J. Weinzettel: Okay. Yeah. No, that is good to know. Um, if you could choose a superpower, what would it be? 

[01:10:38] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Flying. Flying? Yeah. Easy. Does that? Hey, I have a question about this. Okay, 

[01:10:44] A.J. Weinzettel: go for it. Is that okay? 

[01:10:45] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:10:46] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Of course. Anything. If, with flying, do you automatically get some, like, extra, like, invincibility? Because if you, are you flying and if you hit something, you’re done? Oh, great. You know what I 

[01:11:00] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: mean? Good question. Um, 

[01:11:03] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Sure. Let’s say yes. Yeah. I don’t know if that’s a great superpower then, because you’re gonna run into stuff.

[01:11:08] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Go 

[01:11:08] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: ahead. Why? I don’t do that when I’m walking most of the time. Why would I do it when I’m flying? 

[01:11:13] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Well, most, most superheroes that fly, though, they can also run into stuff and not die. Right. Yeah. 

[01:11:20] A.J. Weinzettel: Right? I mean, if you collide into an airplane, 

[01:11:22] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: you don’t want to die. Right. Okay, yeah. I’ll take it. Or like, if you’re flying and a bird hits you, you’re donezo.

[01:11:29] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: If you’re just your normal, weak human self but can fly, right? Am I wrong in this? 

[01:11:35] A.J. Weinzettel: You know, or if there’s some turbulence in the wind or whatever, 

[01:11:38] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: I mean, yeah. I’ll 

[01:11:39] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: take invincible flying as 

[01:11:42] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: my… Invincible flying. Good work around. Yeah. Nice. I like that. Yeah. And yours? I like that. Um, Invisible seems fun, but it seems like I couldn’t help people, and I feel like if I’m going to have a super power, I should help people.

[01:11:59] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um,

[01:12:04] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: so maybe super strength? Okay. Like, but then if I didn’t have super speed, I couldn’t get to like natural disasters and like do anything with it. Okay. Hmm. 

[01:12:16] A.J. Weinzettel: You’re gonna have to decide on one. You need to find a 

[01:12:17] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: workaround. I gotta find, I gotta find a workaround. Yeah. Yeah, I like, you know, I think I like, I think I like, um, Who’s the man who does things with water?

[01:12:26] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Aquaman. Yep. Okay. Yeah, because that would be helpful. Yeah. Yeah, because I feel like, you know, the ocean and the more that I could do things to participate in the, you know, equilibrium of maintaining the ocean. Um, that would, that’s probably the most impact I could have. So you want 

[01:12:45] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: to be Aquaman? Okay. That would be great.

[01:12:46] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Invincible Flying Aquaman. Yeah. Alright. That was our short answers. Okay. Yeah. 

[01:12:50] A.J. Weinzettel: Harvest Notes. Are they written or digital? 

[01:12:53] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Oh my god. We’re the worst. I take pictures. Notes. 

[01:12:57] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Nah. I take pictures so that we remember. What days things happened and when we did things and like, we’re terrible at notes. We’re really bad at it.

[01:13:08] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Okay. We remember things like we know what we did. We know what we added. We know generally what dates those are, but they’ll be like, what day 

[01:13:15] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: did we do this? Notes give me anxiety because then you can go back to a note and then you can have new information. And now your note is, like, accusing you.

[01:13:24] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: It’s like, look at you, like, You did the wrong thing. And now I know I did the wrong thing. Yeah, 

[01:13:30] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: we tried. We started a notebook, I think, first year. And it was like, 9, 16, 22. And then we was like, whatever we did that day, that lasted about two days. And that was it. And then we fell off of it. 

[01:13:43] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Hard. This is maybe why we can’t scale.

[01:13:46] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Well, I 

[01:13:48] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: mean, yeah, 

[01:13:50] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: well, it’s a lot of, it’s in the moment stuff and yeah, so I think notes like freak me out, maybe similarly to like running too many numbers because if I have the information, then I start feeling pressure to work off of the information. And so if I have the notes, I start feeling pressure to take the notes into like into account too much and it’s like distracting.

[01:14:14] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. So no notes. I had no notes. No notes. It’s not even digital or . Yeah, that’s great. There’s just none. Yeah. 

[01:14:20] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: It’s all up here. It’s all up here. It’s a 

[01:14:22] A.J. Weinzettel: feeling. Yeah, yeah. No, and 

[01:14:24] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: that’s good. That’s good. Yeah. She’ll ask me stuff. She’ll be like, what did we do for this? And I was like, you know. 

[01:14:28] A.J. Weinzettel: We were, we just, you know.

[01:14:30] A.J. Weinzettel: We did this. Yeah, worked. 

[01:14:31] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Did it work? Yeah. I’m like, why are you asking? Why are you leaving it alone? Why are you bringing it up? 

[01:14:35] A.J. Weinzettel: All right, last final question for Rapid Fire. Last book you read. It could be on Audible or it could even be like a podcast or something. 

[01:14:44] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Um, last book I read was, um, The Four, uh, Four, Four Feathers, I think it was called Four Feathers, or the Winds of Four Feathers, something in that, in that realm, um, about the, like, the Depression and the Dust Bowl that happened in America.

[01:15:04] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: It was very interesting. It was a sad book. I cried very hard at the end. I 

[01:15:06] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: was going to say, that sounds sad. It was very sad. Yeah. Right. Why are you reading about the 

[01:15:11] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Depression? I, because it was an interesting book. I don’t know. It was given to me by Amanda and she was like, you should read this, you’ll like it.

[01:15:17] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: She gave me a stack of books when I went to her house. Because I don’t go out and buy my own books. I just rely on her to hand them down to me. That’s really good, 

[01:15:24] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: though. I feel like that’s way better. There’s too many options. Yeah. Yeah, because if I went to the bookstore It’s so good if someone recommends you a book, and they’re like, read this.

[01:15:32] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah, 

[01:15:33] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: if I went to the bookstore, I could never just like pick something. I’m like, I’m gonna read this. So when she just hands me a stack, I trust her judgment. She likes to read. I just read what she gives me. Very nice. I’ll pass them along. Yeah, so now I have at my, that I haven’t started the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo, and that’s my next book.

[01:15:51] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Super 

[01:15:51] A.J. Weinzettel: good. Yeah. 

[01:15:52] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. 

[01:15:53] A.J. Weinzettel: What 

[01:15:53] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: about yourself, Michael? Um, something also, I don’t know why it’s being critical of you reading depressing stuff. Probably like something like Doky , like I, I like, like, um, like philosophy stuff. Like the kind of, I don’t know, like in like Greek philosophy, I like all the puzzles.

[01:16:12] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Okay. Um, I like, I like, um. It’s mostly all philosophy. Yeah. Yeah. Philosophy, wine, stuff. Um, yeah. All philosophy and wine books. 

[01:16:24] A.J. Weinzettel: All right. Shall we reveal the blind wine? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, um, it was a hard decision. I wanted to, I was going to get a, um, a Chardonnay from a white walnut. Right. And I’m like, He might guess that way too easy.

[01:16:46] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, we love those wines. Right, because, I mean, they’re unique, they’re like, oh my gosh. Yeah. So I had to dig deep a little bit further. And so you had some time in Antica Terra. And, uh, so Tom, who has Praetel, you know, I wanted to, I brought that out. That’s awesome. 

[01:17:05] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. It’s delicious. Really delicious. Yeah.

[01:17:09] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: We’ve never had his wine. Yeah, so this is amazing. Thank you for sharing 

[01:17:13] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: that with us. You’re welcome. Really delicious. Yeah, super cool What’s um, so he’s doing his own. What did he do? Did he learn to make wine with maggie? Yeah, 

[01:17:24] A.J. Weinzettel: cool. Yeah. Yeah, he learned to make wine, uh with maggie. He has Oh, I can’t remember the blend, but it’s like, I want to say it’s a Pinot Noir Merlot blend.

[01:17:36] A.J. Weinzettel: It’s a very unique blend and, oh my gosh, it’s so good. Yeah. I, uh, blinded, uh, Andrew Rikers from Audeant, who was assistant to Maggie on that wine. And he’s like, what in the heck is this? 

[01:17:52] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Because it was so unique. Yeah, I’m trying to 

[01:17:53] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: imagine how that would kind of… 

[01:17:56] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. And, and, you know, when we turn the cameras off and whatnot, I’ll I’ll pull the bottle because I can’t remember the blend exactly.

[01:18:01] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. But yeah, it was a unique blend and I love what Tom was doing. 

[01:18:05] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: No, this is this beautiful, delicious. 

[01:18:08] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. Super tasty. Yeah. Well, very cool stuff. 

[01:18:12] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, do you have any questions for me before we wrap up? What’s 

[01:18:15] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: your favorite thing about doing these podcasts? 

[01:18:18] A.J. Weinzettel: I love doing the research and finding out like the little idiosyncrasies like Just 

[01:18:24] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: details.

[01:18:25] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. I’m like trying to think like where we talked about you sorting through my condiments. That was a deep cut. Like, great job. 

[01:18:33] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Yeah. No, man takes notes, 

[01:18:35] A.J. Weinzettel: you know, and it’s, it’s fun because I get to know the people behind the label more. And I think that’s what needs to like shine. Yeah, and so that’s that’s why I 

[01:18:46] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: do this.

[01:18:47] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Have you, can I have a question? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you ever, have you ever met, have you ever loved, and you don’t have to say who they are, Right. Have you ever loved the wines? And then you meet the person and you’re like, Oh, they’re kind of, I’ll say. Yep. Yep.

[01:19:03] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: It’s not us, right? 

[01:19:05] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: No, it is not you. It is not you. No, no pressure. No pressure whatsoever. 

[01:19:10] A.J. Weinzettel: No, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. No, this has been an absolute blast. Thanks for having us. I didn’t know much about your story, you know, but we’ve been sitting here for over an hour and just to get to know you more. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

[01:19:23] A.J. Weinzettel: Thank you. 

[01:19:23] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: It’s been, it’s been a blast. I hope that when we go back and watch this, I answered. Some questions. You did. Oh, you did. And I didn’t just talk like a river of thought? No. No. And wander away? No. You 

[01:19:34] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: did great. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:19:36] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: No, it was all great. Very good answers. All right. Well, thank 

[01:19:39] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: you. Thank you so much.

[01:19:40] Mariel of Guerrilla Wine Company: I appreciate it. No, thank you. This was great. Loved it. Awesome. Thanks for having us. Thank you. 

[01:19:44] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: Thank you for joining 

[01:19:45] A.J. Weinzettel: me on this flavorful voyage through the world of wine on the Wine Notes podcast. I’ve been your host and guide, A. J. Weinzettel, and it’s been an absolute pleasure sharing these captivating stories with you.

[01:19:56] A.J. Weinzettel: But alas, might the last sip of a fine vintage are time together, must it? But don’t fret, my wine loving friend. The cellar doors of the Wine Notes podcast will always remain open. Waiting for you to return and explore new conversations, stories, and musings from the captivating people behind the magical world of wine.

[01:20:16] A.J. Weinzettel: Before you go, hit that subscribe button on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and don’t forget to leave a sparkly five star review to 

[01:20:25] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: help spread the word. And to our glasses 

[01:20:27] A.J. Weinzettel: clink again, remember to savor life’s moments and let the spirit of wine… And as always, may your wine glass be full, your heart be light, and your journey be 

[01:20:39] Micheal of Guerrilla Wine Company: delighted.

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