Join us for an extraordinary journey into the world of Oregon wine with the legendary winemaker, Joe Dobbes. In this captivating interview, we explore the rich tapestry of Joe’s life and career, from planting marionberries at the age of 13 to becoming a prominent figure in Oregon’s wine industry.
Key Moments in my interview with Joe Dobbes of Iterum Wines
- Discover the roots of Joe Dobbes’ winemaking journey, from planting marionberries at a young age to selling to Smuckers, and the pivotal decision to transition from pursuing a medical career to venturing into the wine industry.
- Uncover the serendipitous conversations that shaped Joe’s trajectory, including a chance encounter during the 1984 International Cool Climate Symposium in Oregon that led him to Germany, kickstarting his wine career.
- Reflect on Joe’s 30-year celebration in the wine industry and the heartfelt words from Jim Bernau, CEO of Willamette Valley Vineyards, expressing regret at not being able to keep Joe and the possibility of a future collaboration.
- Dive into Joe’s transition from being a major Oregon wine producer to creating his boutique winery Iterum.
- Explore the challenges and decisions behind producing wine in the tumultuous year of 2020, a time when many winemakers opted not to due to wildfires. Gain insights into the unique aspects of the 2020 vintage.
- Learn about the influence Joe Dobbes had on winemaker Travis Todd during the 2020 vintage, showcasing the collaborative spirit within the Oregon wine community.
- Delve into the legacy of Joe Dobbes as a father, mentor, and pioneer in the wine industry, including the unique perspective of his daughter, Amelia, growing up surrounded by the world of Oregon Pinot.
We also dove into the challenges and decisions of producing wine in 2020, a tumultuous year for many winemakers. Discover the unique magic Joe Dobbes brought to Pinot Noir in this challenging vintage.
This interview not only offers a glimpse into the history and evolution of Oregon winemaking but also takes you on a tasting journey through Joe Dobbes’ 2020 vintage. Don’t miss this opportunity to uncork the stories and flavors that have shaped one of Oregon’s wine legends. Subscribe, like, and hit the notification bell for more captivating interviews and tasting experiences. Cheers to the legacy of Joe Dobbes of Iterum Wines! 🍇🍷
Be sure to also checkout other winemaker interviews!
Transcription of interview with Joe Dobbes of Iterum Wines in Oregon’s Willamette Valley
[00:00:00] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Cheers [00:00:00] A.J. Weinzettel: to another episode of the Wine Notes podcast. I’m your guide, A. J. Winesuttle, on this journey of stories, showcasing the people behind the wonderful world of wine, where we dive into conversations ranging from terroir, viticulture, to favorite music, superpowers, and more. [00:00:15] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Please [00:00:16] A.J. Weinzettel: enjoy this episode of the Wine Notes podcast. [00:00:18] A.J. Weinzettel: Joe, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast today. I really appreciate it. It’s [00:00:21] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: my pleasure, A. J. I’ve been watching your work and, uh, I was able to accommodate you once here some months ago and I’ve been looking forward to this. Yes, no, I’ve [00:00:30] A.J. Weinzettel: very much been looking forward to it as well. [00:00:31] A.J. Weinzettel: Uh, holy cow. You can’t even see out your window, I mean, of the [00:00:36] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: fog. We are at 600 feet in the fog layer right now, but it’s a beautiful sunny day out there. Somewhere. Somewhere, yes. I was at the winery earlier this morning and it was sunny there. [00:00:45] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, yeah, no, I’m sure it’ll burn off here pretty soon. Uh, can I start it off, start us off with a little bit of, of a blind wine? [00:00:51] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Please. Okay. Yeah. So looking forward to maybe, maybe looking like a fool here. [00:00:57] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, you know, as I tell everybody, Um, [00:01:01] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: whatever you want to [00:01:02] A.J. Weinzettel: say. It’s totally up to you. If you just wanna say it’s yummy or, Ooh, I’m not sure about this. It’s totally up to you. Okay. And, [00:01:10] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: um, so you gonna gimme some parameters or is this, uh, north America or [00:01:14] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Well, so I, or well, so [00:01:16] A.J. Weinzettel: the, the, the, the parameters is I always try to find something that has some sort of connection to you. [00:01:23] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Okay. Uh. Uh oh. Well, yeah. And I [00:01:26] A.J. Weinzettel: was like, oh my gosh, what, what in the world do I bring Joe Dobbs as a blind wine? Because [00:01:33] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: this is a beautiful wine, AJ. [00:01:34] A.J. Weinzettel: And see, that’s all that matters. [00:01:36] A.J. Weinzettel: That is all that matters. Um, it’s, it is always fun to have just a little something, uh, just to kind of kick things off and then toward the end I’ll, I’ll reveal what it is. Thank you. Yeah, [00:01:48] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: cheers. Thank you for keeping me honest, huh? Well, I love the aromas. It’s, uh, red fruit and a little smoky, uh, gunpowder, cherries, raspberries. [00:01:57] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. And [00:01:58] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I, you know, I did have some difficulty of [00:02:00] A.J. Weinzettel: what do you, I mean, you have so many connections in the wine industry. How do I find something that has a connection to you? So hopefully, you know, this, this will kind of tie into what we want to talk about today and have a connection to you. [00:02:13] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Well, my guess is it’s been an hour. [00:02:16] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Gosh, so all the vintages are going through my head. This is like… Instead of your taking the WCET test. A little bit, but you know, you don’t, you don’t, you don’t have, [00:02:24] A.J. Weinzettel: and you don’t need to dive in that [00:02:25] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: deep. It’s totally fine. It reminds me of the 2015 vintage, um, which I loved. Um, red fruited, well balanced wines, gorgeous wines. [00:02:34] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Um, I haven’t had, I’ve got a bunch in the cellar downstairs. I haven’t had any in a while, so we’re due, but it reminds me of that vintage, but you know, it could be It could be a warmer vintage as well. It’s all about, you know, you got the land in the hand. So the winemaker can definitely steer something to more red fruited and a little more lighter and elegant by when it’s picked. [00:02:53] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Right? Right? I mean, you pick at 22 bricks versus 24 and a half or something, so. And then fermentation process, etc. [00:02:59] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yeah, it’s about. That’s fine. And that’s fine. Yeah, I’ve gone about as far out on the board as I think I can. I don’t know. Yeah, no, [00:03:05] A.J. Weinzettel: and that’s fine. So. You know, let’s, let’s go back many, many, many years for you. Okay. Um, you were, you know, 13 or 14 years, years old. Yeah. Uh, your dad asked you if you wanted to do something with the two acre parcel that was in front of your house. [00:03:20] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. I was [00:03:21] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: 12. Okay, you were 12. [00:03:22] A.J. Weinzettel: And you decided to, uh, plant table grapes and you ended up Marionberries. Marionberries. Marionberries. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yep. And you sold them to smuckers. I did. [00:03:33] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: My, uh, you know, it’s just, to hear [00:03:36] A.J. Weinzettel: that story, I just want to know so much more. What, um, so when you were getting ready to plant the Marian berries, did you know you were going to sell them to smuckers? [00:03:43] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yeah, yeah. Oh my goodness. So, we moved to Oregon in 71, so I was 11 years old at the time, so I just revealed my age. Um, from Colorado, my dad was a physician there, uh, just outside of Denver and urban sprawl was displaced where he used to go dove hunting. He says, the hell with this, we’re out of here. Let’s go West. [00:04:02] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Right. Let’s go West, young man. And um, we ended up buying, uh, what I call a gentleman’s farm. It was 60 acres. Um, I grew up with, uh, you know, an eight acre lake. I go, you know, duck hunting in the morning, bass fishing at night, uh, motorcycles, horses. Hunting, gigging frogs, you name it, we did it. It was an amazing upbringing. [00:04:22] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I also, my dad instilled a work ethic in me. that, uh, I really appreciate. And, uh, you know, it was picking blueberries, gardening, uh, building barns, um, cutting down trees, planting of indiard in later years, in 84, and that’s another era. Um, it was my parents used to own a winery. And, um, there was two acres in front of the house that was not really good for grapes or much else. [00:04:46] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And he says, hey, you want to do something with that? Planting married berries. Wow. Yeah, and sold them to Smuckers. My dog Schultz and I would deliver them. German short hair. Everybody at Smuckers loved Schultz. He enjoyed eating married berries as well. He’d sit in the car and I’d just throw them to him and he’d catch them in his mouth. [00:05:01] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: But yeah, that’s that’s how I grew up. So, uh, I think I made money a couple of years, um, borrowed a neighbor’s tractor and the transmission burned up. And so that cost me a lot of money. Oh, yeah. Probably not sure I really needed to pay for his used tractor, new transmission, but nonetheless, I did it. Um, yeah, so did that for, I don’t know, four or five, six years maybe. [00:05:21] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And then at high school and athletics and. Life happened. Wow, [00:05:25] A.J. Weinzettel: so much that that’s, you know, I heard that. I just, I just needed to know more because like, holy cow, selling to smuckers before you’re, you know, while you’re in high school is just, [00:05:34] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: that is a very, very abnormal. Maybe I’ve, um, I’ve always been an entrepreneur. [00:05:38] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I’ve Um, [00:05:39] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: it might frustrate those that work with me or around me. They say you have a lot of great ideas, but, um, You have no, you underestimate how much it’s going to take to execute on those ideas. Right. Right. So, but I mean, any entrepreneur I think is like that. They, they can create maybe a little bit of chaos around them. [00:05:56] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I don’t, I’m not sure I created chaos. I mean, I had great people, but I always threw a lot of things at the wall, but I know with people that I worked with and, uh, sometimes it worked out really well. You know? No, I [00:06:08] A.J. Weinzettel: think it did work out very, very [00:06:10] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: well. Find it and eat and go for it. Exactly, exactly. [00:06:12] A.J. Weinzettel: We have some more questions, but should we start diving into a little bit of wine? [00:06:16] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yes, yes. So what we have here are a few Pinot Noirs and a Chardonnay. Okay. These are all from the 2020 vintage. I heard there were forest fires in 2020. I heard the same. Yeah. And we’re here at, you know, 600 feet on the west slope at ULM in the hills. There was plenty of smoke here. you know, the fires. For the most part, we’re up to San Am, you know, Detroit Lake, etc. [00:06:37] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: up there, above Solarton, and then, uh, Newberg, the Newberg fire at the top of the mountain there. Yeah. When they call that, um, Bull Mound, I think? Well, no, you have, uh, there’s like Bald Peak. Yeah, and I don’t remember the… Yeah, yeah, um, I know my sister and her husband, uh, had to evacuate their house. They spent about a week here, just because the fire was getting pretty close to them. [00:06:59] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: But nonetheless, I mean, we had one vineyard, Arlen Vineyard, and we’ll taste that from 2020. Um… That was the closest. I mean, it’s five miles away from the fire, right? And everything else was, you know, quite a ways, but we’re still affected by the smoke, right? So, yeah, I’ll just jump in here. Um, the 2020 vintage, you know, we started making wine here at this estate. [00:07:20] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: It’s, uh, In 2019, my glasses, here’s the 115. Okay, thank you. From the estate, so Orchard House estate is the estate vineyard, and then we buy grapes, so we have clone 115 and 114 here, and um, so here’s the 114. Okay. And then we buy grapes from vineyards I’ve worked with over the years, And they’re labeled under the moniker Old Friends. [00:07:43] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And, um, so those are limited quantity wines that I’ve worked with. They’re, they’re, you know, they’re the superstars of the NBA, right? Anybody who’s in the NBA is a great player. But then you’ve got, um, you know, the LeBron James, Michael Jordan, the world. Quailhurst. So this is Quailhurst. So this is an Old Friends. [00:08:01] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So I had it two years off after. My last vintage at Dobbs family estate, which I still own half of and took two years off bought our dream property here and said, okay well, what do I want to do here and It was really nice to just take two vintages off and really think about How I’m going to structure this brand, right? [00:08:20] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And well, what about the old friends? So here we go. So if somebody joins the full circle society, they can then purchase these limited quantities of these old friend bottlings. Very nice. And one more. So in [00:08:35] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: 2020, you know, we have about a 12 acre vineyard here and I’m going to do this for the shot. Thank you. We have a 12 acre vineyard here, and I had a lot of money invested in organically farming this. And the Labor Day fires popped up, and it’s like, well, I didn’t even for a second, AJ, think about not making wine. [00:08:53] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: It just didn’t make any sense to me. I had probably 70, 000 invested in farming the vineyard. What am I gonna do? Make rosĂ©? Um, let the birds eat it? No, I… Just kind of rolled up my sleeves and went after it right and then the same with our growers as well You know, what am I gonna do leave them hanging? I Some some wineries chose not to make wine for a lot of different reasons maybe high in inventory Um, and, or, of course, from the smoke and being concerned about making wines that are tainted, etc. [00:09:20] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And, I, I’ve been making wine a long time. A long time, yeah. I’ve been making wine in Oregon, uh, as a head winemaker since 89. My first vintage in Oregon was, Uh, 86 and 87 in Elk Cove, and I was in Burgundy in 88, and started in the business in 1985 in Germany. Um, then when I started, you know, I was at Willamette Valley Vineyards for seven years, and then started Dobbs Family Estate and Wine by Joe in 2002. [00:09:41] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So, where am I going with this? When you make value priced wines, you put the oak into the wine instead of the wine into the oak. So for Wine by Joe, or, uh, you know, other value priced wines out there, people know the labels. I think it’s more difficult to make a value price bottle of wine that’s of really high quality and still make money than it is to make a 90 pinot noir. [00:10:02] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And why do I say that? It’s because you have to shape costs where you can. Exactly. You’re farming at higher tonnages, you might be farming in southern Oregon where they can get. Five, six tons the acre or higher of really high quality Pinot Noir. And more, getting to my point, is your machine picking. Right? [00:10:18] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: You can’t afford to pick those grapes by hand. No, no. The picker goes over the row with meter bars, hits the grape vines, and guess what comes off? Berries of fruit. Also the, the rachis. Um, leaf, mog, material other than grape is a common term in the industry, and anybody in the industry will know that. Mog doesn’t taste very good in wine. [00:10:39] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: If you’ve chewed on a green leaf or a leaf petiole, a bird nest, or whatever else might be in there, um, no matter what, with machine pricked fruit, you’re going to be getting some of that in there. And I learned years ago, so I’m going to, I’m just going to reveal what I did. Um, I think we had the feedback from the press and our customers has been. [00:10:58] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Overwhelming. Great. And, um, you know, I’ve been party to hearing about one industry, uh, owner talking to another winemaker about You know, who did a good job in 2020 and lo and behold our name came up. So I’m humbled. I’m flattered I worked my ass off at it and I called on some of my Some my history so getting to the point I learned years ago that if you use what’s called blonde chips So if you got an oak stave, that’s 40 inches long and they cut it at 36 inches to make a high end French oak barrel. [00:11:28] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: What do you do with that four inch stave? Well, they chip it up. They can toast it and or just do what we call blonde chips. So, you know, fingernail sized chips that are not toasted. And there’s something magical about those that absorbs off characters in during the fermentation. So actively in the fermentation. [00:11:47] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So years ago, I went, I had a 10 ton tank, several of them at Wine by Joe in Dundee. And I added, you know, chips, no chips, different quantities per ton of chips. And fermented it live and, you know, saw what the results were. Well, lo and behold, those oak chips, those blonde, untoasted chips, in the fermenter. [00:12:07] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: During the heat of fermentation, you know, in the 80s, maybe a little 90s, you do something magical and it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s like a, it’s like an eraser. It’s, it’s like a sponge. It absorbs off characters. So mog, um, sunburned berries, it’s magical. I mean, it, it does a great job. You know, in hot vintages, you can have some sunburned berries. [00:12:26] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: You can never sort all those out. No. Right? And if you’re machine picking, you’re not sorting any of those out. Those are in the fermenter. And so, you know, I did some reading and, you know, there’s all kinds of things you can do, uh, carbon and enzymes and this and that. You know, pixie dust. And so, I had the benefit of Arlen Vineyard, which is clone 4407, up by in, uh, JL Mountain ABA, right on Calkins Lane, right across from Adelstein, owned by Janice Pate. [00:12:53] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Great woman. And I first worked with that vineyard in 2016. That was my last vintage at Dobbs. They always went in the high end wine. It took the two years off, as I said, told Janice, hey, I want to work with your fruit. So in 19, you know, I had great success with it. Good, good reviews and wines essentially sold out. [00:13:10] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: In 2020, then, we had these fires and the benefit, how often do you have a crystal ball? [00:13:15] A.J. Weinzettel: Not very often. No, no, [00:13:17] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: not at all. If I had a crystal ball, we’d be doing this on my yacht or something. I’d be right there. Or whatever. No, we’d be on the jet. Um, but anyway, Um, I got up at 4, 4. 30 in the morning. I had a micro winery set up in my garage. [00:13:30] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And I’d go up to Janice’s Vineyard, Arlen. And pick those grapes, bring them down. Because that vineyard… It’s on, um, sedimentary soil, riparioglure rootstock, which is devigorating and promotes ripeness, so you ripen sooner, and clone 4407, so it’s like the perfect storm. Right, right. To have two, two and a half weeks advance. [00:13:51] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Ripeness of everything else, my estate and the other vineyards that we’re buying from, even Quailhurst and Cheyenne Mountain. And precipitously ferment, um, numerous experiments with Arlen to see what worked. And, you know, I tried enzymes, I did this, I did that. Um, gelatin, you know, all kinds of things. And lo and behold, the oak chips. [00:14:11] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Wow. Won, hands down. So I said, Okay, that’s what we’re going to do and I did it and, um, you know, I’m really proud of these wines. The reviews, I think we got 190, we made six different Vino Noirs, two from the estate. Um, the Eola Bench right here, the black label is actually is a representation of our estate vineyard here that’s 450 to 650 feet west facing and, uh, See, Seminette, which is just down the hill from us. [00:14:37] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: One of my, Ken Wright and I worked on the 89 vintage together at Eola Hills Wine Cellars, and he introduced me to that vineyard. It’s not by chance that he owns Carter, which is literally across the fence, because the introduction to Seminette at the time, it was called Tupper. So I’m working with three different, uh, third owner there from that vineyard, but I digress. [00:14:57] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: It’s an amazing vineyard. So Eola Bench is a combination of our estate and Seminette, but Um Yeah, reviews. Uh, we’ve had two set of reviews right now, uh, Wine Enthusiasts and International Wine Report, and the lowest score was 92 points. Yeah, and I can understand why. Mostly 93s, a couple 94s, and a couple 95s. [00:15:16] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: That’s great. I guess, okay, I mean, am I hanging my hat on the press? No, but third party endorsements, especially when you’ve got a vintage like 2020, where it’s like, You know, people, Oh, 2020, I don’t want to taste it. Right, right, right. And I’ve done taste scenes and all people are, Oh, they’re 2020. So instantly they go. [00:15:35] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Where’s the smoke, right? Well, there ain’t no smoke in these wines. Well, and, [00:15:39] A.J. Weinzettel: well, and yeah, and I, I agree. I mean, here I am, I, I took a little sip and on the nose, I get, I get nothing. They’re fruity wines. Yeah, and when I say I get nothing, I get no, I get no smoke. Yeah. I get no [00:15:52] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: smoke. No, no creosote, no charcoal, no ash, no, uh, kind of burnt band aid. [00:15:56] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Um, the… The highest score is Arlen, which was five miles from the fire. Coincidentally, right? Um, again, I mean, I don’t hang my hat and say, oh, the press says this or that. But, I mean, you can stand there all day and tell people what you did, and they’re like, yeah, sure. Right? Yes. No, you can’t. When the press comes in, you just go, oh, here it is. [00:16:13] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Try it, and boom. Yeah. And, you know, in 2020, wineries, I’m not, I mean, it is what it is. They chose either not to make wine, Um, make RosĂ© out of peanut oil, maybe do kind of a quick release, um, maybe more kitschy brand than, um, than something they had done before, um, protect the reputation of the brand that they built. [00:16:34] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I get it. I totally get it. Um, for me, it wasn’t an option. I just said, well, I gotta, I gotta do this. There was, I’m going to be maybe a little apolitical, or not politically correct, but I mean, at the same time the comment was made, I didn’t think it was very politically correct. There was an Oregon winemaker that said, yeah, there were two, in an interview, um, you know, national press, two wineries in 2020, those that made wine and those that wish they didn’t make wine. [00:16:58] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I’m like, hmm, okay, well I’ve tasted other Oregon 2020 Pinot Noirs, not a ton of them, and they were pretty damn good. Yeah, yeah, you know, so I don’t know it is what it is. It is what we did and here it is Well, you know, [00:17:13] A.J. Weinzettel: I I can’t wait to start diving into more of them as we as we go along here But that’s that first one that is [00:17:19] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: pretty darn spectacular. [00:17:20] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And I think you know, I’m still Mystery wine here. No, then we made the Chardonnay as well from the estate Orchard House estate. So Everything we’re doing here is Engel either Engel either Single clones from the estate here. Right. The Hunchard House, 114 and 115. Or one or multiple clones, single vineyards. [00:17:39] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So the only blend that we do is the… The black label. The black label. Okay, nice. Well, um… [00:17:45] A.J. Weinzettel: Moving on to another question here. Uh, so you know, you were pursuing going to medical school and you were sick and tired of, you know, going to school. And over, uh, Christmas break, you know, you told your dad that, you know, you wanted to pursue wine. [00:18:00] A.J. Weinzettel: Um, and what kind of got you into that was a news clip for Elks [00:18:06] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Cove. Yes. Yeah. What? I’ve done your research. I, I try, I try. That was in the early 80s. That is around 82. Yeah. You know, dropping a bomb like [00:18:16] A.J. Weinzettel: that, you know, to your dad during Christmas break, I’m sure it didn’t go [00:18:20] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: all that well. You know, he was totally cool. [00:18:22] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: He didn’t, never pressured me to pursue medical school. I actually started out. Surprise in business, you know, general business, I mean, as a freshman, you just take courses that you have to take when you’re in college, right? And one of them was, you know, macro biology. And for the first time I had really been challenged, um, you know, the sciences and I had some amazing teachers, Southern Oregon universities, small university, liberal arts college, um, and it attracted some of the best professors money could buy. [00:18:53] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And it wasn’t even about money, it was about lifestyle. Right? I mean, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, I mean, I had amazing professors that really cared about what they did. Because they loved living in Ashland. I, I, I can imagine. And it kinda lit my fire. It’s like, I think the human body is, uh, is magical. , . I’m still trying to figure mine out. [00:19:12] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: It’s like, yes, every day, another acre pain or this or that, or the mystery of all of a sudden I can’t bend this thumb, you know? And now it’s getting better and nobody can figure out, you know, maybe it’s a bone spur in my neck. I don’t know. , but, you know, what do you do? It’s, it’s, um. Magical. It’s a mystery. [00:19:30] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Uh, I’m still really interested in intrigued by medicine and the sciences, but I went into a different part of the sciences. Um, this wine for me is, it’s my creative outlet. I love it. I mean, I use the word passion. It’s overused, but it’s a term is, you know, after 30, maybe 34 vintages and then taking a couple off, etc. [00:19:51] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Been making wine for a long time. I’m having the time of my life. This is truly my passion and I’ll say my ego project. Right? I mean, after having made wine for so many years and taking a couple of years off, it’s like, okay, well, I’m going to do this again. Ytterium, by the way, is a Latin word that means, again, afresh once more. [00:20:08] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So, it’s a little circle around the IT there. Meaning, you know, I went full circle with this property that we used to make, um, the wine for the previous owners. And then we leased it at Dobbs for a number of years. And it got sold. And then five years later, we bought our dream estate. And I’m jumping all over here. [00:20:24] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: But, um, When I first started Wine by Joe and Dobbs, I was ignorant as to, you know, I just put my head down, went really hard, uh, worked my ass off and surround myself with some really great people. Right. That’s what, that’s what you got to do. Gave them a leash, you know, trust but confirm. Right, right. And, um, we grew that company quickly and, you know, after 17 years, it was time to take a break. [00:20:48] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Do a reset figure out what I want to do when I grew up and this is it And this is truly my passion project and talk about ego is like, you know, ego is not necessarily a bad thing Everyone’s got an ego healthy ego if you have an oversized ego that I don’t think that’s such a great thing I think most people would probably agree with me on that. [00:21:04] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: But where I’m coming from as far as AJ, Ego Project is, okay, I’ve been making wine a long time, I’ve had some successes, um, some accolades, but this was my, this is my final act, right? It’s like, you know, Joe Dobbs 3. 0 and I wanted to make a splash. [00:21:23] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, yeah, and if I remember correctly, you had said, I think, last year, that you still hadn’t made your best [00:21:30] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: wine yet. [00:21:31] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yes, my wife hates it when I say it, Patricia, but now she gets it. Um, and over all the years, you know, I was a hired gun for 17 years working for other wineries and ran Dobbs and Wine by Joe for 17 years. And we grew quickly. I had never done indigenous yeast fermentations on reds or whites. Now that’s all I do. [00:21:48] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I had never farmed our estate organically. Um, I had never made sparkling Method Champagnois, which we’re doing now. RosĂ© and, uh, of Pinot and Chardonnay from, uh, started in 19, so that’ll be released in February. We’re selling futures on that to our Full Circle Society club members. They’re loving it. Yeah. [00:22:06] A.J. Weinzettel: Sparkling. I think. [00:22:07] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And, um, a few other things I had never done in the vineyard and either, and in the winery. And so now I’m doing that. And I, I have the time to really think and put the needle in the bullseye. At least in my opinion, as, as much as possible. The wines are different than what I’ve been making. [00:22:27] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Our customers are loving it. The company’s growing quickly. We’re small. Well, but, you know. But the state’s small. I don’t want to have to get on an airplane again to go sell my wine. I don’t blame you. Although we do have a new distributor in the British Virgin Islands, and I will be getting on an airplane to go there. [00:22:42] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: That sounds like an awful [00:22:44] A.J. Weinzettel: trip. Exactly. [00:22:45] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Okay, sign me up. [00:22:46] A.J. Weinzettel: Yes, yes. So, yes, I mean, I was, I think it was around this time last year when I, when I came out and first tasted your wine, uh, your Sav Blanc last year was absolutely stellar. Um, you know, and even the, the 2019 Arlen that I tasted in New England, that was another one that stood out to me. [00:23:04] A.J. Weinzettel: So I’m, I’m very curious to keep diving forward [00:23:07] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: here. Yeah, yeah. So on your far left is the 1, 1 5 from the estate and then the 1 1 4, which is in your glass right now. Okay. And then after that we go Quail Hearst, Arlin. , QAS. Okay. And then we finish up with the Eola bench. But, um, you know, the, the beauty of having a couple vintages off, uh, 17 and 18. [00:23:30] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Um, in 18, when we bought this place in September, it was just a little over five years ago. The grapes came in and got picked and went to A to Z. They were under lease, although we had owned the property. It was pretty cool. It was like, all right, I don’t, you know, I’ve been working my butt off for a lot of, you know, numerous vintages in a row and to have that break was really refreshing. [00:23:51] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And then I got to thinking about, okay, what’s his brand plan going to look like? And, you know, in the industry, we talk about the land and the hand. The land is the same, the hand is the variable. So by, you know, the hand, I mean, you know, the winemaker. So you could, cutting the chase, 114 and 115 are picked on the same day, same indigenous, same seller, same barrel regime, no filtration, no fining, bottled on the same day. [00:24:14] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So what’s it all boiled down to? It’s genetic material, right? Of course. The clones. And, um, people geek out over it. Every year they’re the same. The 114 is a little more blue fruited and softer, a little higher, um, pH, a little lower acid at picking time. The 115 is a little more red fruited. It’s split, you know, between the customers. [00:24:34] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, everybody has a different, uh, opinion and different, um, different taste in what they like. Um, you know, for me, I do like the first one a little bit better because I am a darker fruit person. Yeah. But I love the vibrancy and, um, you know, how this, you know, how the second one is showing off. [00:24:53] A.J. Weinzettel: It’s, it’s really good. Great. [00:24:55] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So over the years, um, you know, when I was, uh, Running the daily show at Dobbs Family Estate in our tasting room. I thought about and I talked to my staff so we need to do some single clonal bottlings and For whatever reasons I always got shot down. I was like, okay Well, we got enough to sell them. [00:25:11] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So I wasn’t gonna force it on the staff to do something. They weren’t really behind but Getting small again. I mean I’m doing like One and a half percent of what I used to make on an annual basis. Right. For both brands. And, uh, just do what I want. And that’s, that’s what you should be doing. I mean, I did that back then. [00:25:29] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: But, I mean, it’s. Now it’s like, I’m the guy selling. I mean, our business plan is direct to consumer and wholesale direct where we can do it. My wife and I, I’ve got one full time employee that his first, second, third priorities are the vineyards. He does a great job, Ryan DeVore. Um, and he’s still learning on the job, but doing a great job. [00:25:46] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Anxious to please and he’s Fruit was immaculate this year. Yeah, no, I, [00:25:52] A.J. Weinzettel: I, I’m very pleased. Um, so going, I’m going to go back to 1984 a little bit. And Oregon held the first International Cool Climate Symposium. Yeah. And your dad just struck up a conversation with some random guy. in line who was, um, a yeast [00:26:10] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: genesis or a yeast geneticist at Darmstadt University in West Germany at the time. [00:26:14] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And [00:26:15] A.J. Weinzettel: that conversation totally changed the trajectory of, you know, of your career because he helped you get over to Germany. [00:26:23] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yeah, I was at the time looking to do a vintage in Europe. Um, in college, I had a good friend, she had done a year abroad in Bordeaux. Um, not in the wine business, but just a study, you know, through an exchange at Southern Oregon University. [00:26:37] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And she was just telling me about how cool it was, and you could do that. And I remember too, uh, when I was in high school, there were a couple, you know, big college kids that had a party talking about their bike trip across Europe. And I’m like, I’m gonna do that. Well, I did. I did a thousand mile trip over 30 days. [00:26:53] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I mean, I could have done it in fewer days, but visit friends along the way and made new friends and hung out. It was amazing. Fresh, the, um, French and Swiss Alps and, uh, hung out in Corsica for a couple of weeks on the beach. The rest of my tired body, I can imagine. How did I get, what were we talking about, I, uh… [00:27:11] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Well, yeah, [00:27:12] A.J. Weinzettel: just that, that conversation got you over into [00:27:15] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Germany. Yes, the apprenticeship. So Herr MĂĽller, the yeast geneticist, set me up with Weingut Erbhoff Tesch in Long and Lonesome, West Germany. And, uh, so this was in 1985 I did the vinaigre. And coincidentally enough, Russ, Russ Rainey, who is a good friend of mine, Eversham, the star of Eversham Wood, recently, you know, passed away, and, uh, he did an apprenticeship at the same winery in 71. [00:27:40] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Oh, wow. I had heard about an American that had done a stage, an apprenticeship there. And lo and behold, at the first, uh, industry meeting I came to when I came back to Germany, or came back to Oregon in 86, I met Russ Rainey. Wow. And I did. They didn’t have a name of the guy, and we became fast friends and learned that we worked at the same winery. [00:28:01] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: That’s amazing. Yeah, yeah, but Herr Mueller set me up. Um, so I studied the Berlitz tapes, you know, the Berlitz tapes and the, A little, uh, sticker, like cool shrunk and this and, you know, stuck them on things so I knew the, how to pronounce them. Well, yeah, yeah. And I, I, um, I guess I have a knack for languages or I used to. [00:28:19] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I don’t so much anymore because I don’t, I don’t need another job, but, um, I picked up German quickly. I could read it. I could write it. Wow. I can speak it fairly fluently. Uh, the first couple of days, um, Herr Dees, Mr. Dees, the winemaker who is a graduate Hun, uh, Geisenheim University. So that’s kind of like the uc Davis of Germany. [00:28:38] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Okay. Uh, he spoke English to me fluently and then he quit. And then everybody in the cellar didn’t know how to speak English, so it sink or swim. Oh man. Yeah. Oof. . So I swam , and [00:28:48] A.J. Weinzettel: I think you swam wonderfully. [00:28:50] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I mean, here we are today. Yeah. Yeah. So then I came back to Oregon in 86 and Pat and Joe Campbell gave me a job as. [00:28:56] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Seller grunt. Wow. Yeah. [00:28:58] A.J. Weinzettel: That’s quite amazing. Yeah, [00:29:00] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: yeah, it’s fun. Yeah. [00:29:01] A.J. Weinzettel: Okay, so this, this next one. Yep. Did you say this is [00:29:04] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: the Arlen? Yeah, that is Quailhurst. Oh, Quailhurst. Okay. Yeah. So Quailhurst and Arlen are both from the Chehalem sub ABA. And the story with Quailhurst, all the old friends have a story. I think the interesting story is, uh, Marvin and Deborah Hausman own the vineyard. [00:29:20] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: uh, in the early two thousands. I don’t remember when they bought it, but in 2002, 2003, I met Marvin and his wine was being made in another winery. I helped him finish that wine. And then 2003 started making Quail Hearst Estate for Quail Hearst for Marvin and Deborah and Quail Herst Estate for Dobbs Family Estate. [00:29:41] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Mm-Hmm. . And, uh, you know, it was our, one of our most expensive wines, single vineyard. And, uh, been working with the vineyard ever since, now with the Lou family, second set of owners. And, um, it is right smack in the middle of the bullseye every year. As far as, you know, it’s juicy, great structure, uh, great fruit. [00:30:02] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Right. Um, very, very good. Very cool. Love it. It’s, uh, real exciting. Uh, 667777 clone and we’re going, uh, directly to Vadensville 100 percent from 2021. Wow. Vadensville is just luscious. I love that clone. I, yeah, no, [00:30:16] A.J. Weinzettel: I, it is very much a clone that I enjoy. [00:30:19] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Sterling Fox, a great guy, earns, uh, earns, owns, uh, Sterling Great Vines. [00:30:24] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: He and I worked together at Willamette Valley Vineyards years ago. He was a vineyard manager. We had a great time together, and he Quailhurst estate after, uh, The Hausman family sold it to the Liu family, and I was in on the, you know, we were at the time as a dob, and so we were buying that fruit, and, um, I advised them what I would like to see planted, and Bainesville was one of those clones, 4407, et cetera. [00:30:51] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So, um, now I’m making wine exclusively from the Bainesville clone. Nice. It is sumptuous. I love it. Just love that clone. Yeah. And this vineyard is sumptuous as well. It just… It’s right in the middle of the bullseye. It’s kind of like, gives you everything that I would want in a Pinot Noir. Yeah, [00:31:09] A.J. Weinzettel: and, and just looking at the color in the glass for this one, it is, it is a darker color, and I, I, I [00:31:15] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: love, [00:31:16] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. [00:31:17] A.J. Weinzettel: I, I, I love the, the darker Pinots. [00:31:19] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Well, Quailhurst and Arlen knew that year in and year out. You know, they talk about, uh, more black fruited, um, More structural, more tannin, Neo Amity Hills, I think from the, the influence of the coast range or the, uh, the Duzer corridor and the winds and all that. But the Jeha Mountain Wines, at least the ones that I’m sourcing, Arlin Quail Hearst, make just these, uh, plump delicious very flavor com, um, uh, flavorful wines. [00:31:46] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Dark earned fruit. Right. Yeah. And, um, our one is sedimentary soil, so you would expect to see that, in my opinion, from sedimentary soil, but quail hearse is not. It’s jewelry. It’s higher up on the hill. Interesting. Right. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. But, uh, anyway, we’ll make them all the same. Wow. Same way. Um, so you had a 30 year celebration. [00:32:06] A.J. Weinzettel: At, uh, Irving Street Kitchen, you know, downtown. And, uh, I can never pronounce Jim’s last name. The CEO at Willamette Valley Vineyard. Bernal. Yeah. Thank you. Good friend. Uh, he had the quote of, you know, I really wish I could have kept Joe around, but I just couldn’t make enough wine. Wait, I mean, my biggest regret is not being able to grow Willamette Valley vineyards fast enough to keep Joe. [00:32:29] A.J. Weinzettel: I hold out hope that one day we’ll make wine together again. Uh, [00:32:33] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: yeah. Oh, that was really kind of him. [00:32:36] A.J. Weinzettel: It was very kind. So my, my question is. Are you going to do any sort of collaboration with, with Jim and create, you know, [00:32:43] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: We’ve, we’ve, uh, we’ve discussed that. Okay. Yeah. Since I started this project, he’s been here a couple of times. [00:32:49] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Um, he’s a very busy guy. They’re expanding that company greatly. Um, you know, restaurants, tasting rooms. Yeah. Uh, never say never. Well, yeah, I have worked with them a bit. I’m doing some consulting on some wine. Okay, a couple of images ago and That was fun that was gratifying it was successful for both of us It was it was cost free. [00:33:11] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I didn’t want to charge them because Jim’s a good friend and great, right? [00:33:15] A.J. Weinzettel: No, and that’s good It’s it’s good to have those at this point. I’ll just call lifelong friends that you just kind of help out [00:33:21] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: friends, right? Yeah I don’t know, we’ve talked about doing some collaborative tastings, if we did a collaborative project, that’d be fun. [00:33:27] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: That would be fun. Yeah, yeah. I can think of a video or two that I would, I don’t know what that would look like. Right. Right. Um, they’re a public company, I’m a small private company, but. Well, yeah, but that’s a box. Yeah, difficult. Yeah, no, I think it’s possible. See, we’ll send this podcast to Jim and see what he says. [00:33:44] A.J. Weinzettel: I will be sure to tag him and see what we can do. [00:33:47] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Sometimes I’m my own worst enemy though, right? It’s like, I really swore that I’m, you know, I’m going to slow down and try to keep this simple. And, um, sometimes things become more complicated before you can simplify. I mean, launching a new brand is a whole hell of a lot of work. [00:34:03] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Um, But, you know, I don’t want to take on too many things, but if it’s the right project. I do, I do some custom line making for a couple high end labels. Um, that’s fun. So, we’ll see. Yeah, no, [00:34:14] A.J. Weinzettel: I have to, I’ll have to stay in the know if it happens. Yeah, yeah, that’ll be good. All right, so we’re moving on to Arlen? [00:34:21] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, [00:34:21] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: so then we have Arlen, so 2020. And, um, as they all are, as I said, Arlen is, uh, right across from Adelsheim on Calkins Lane, sedimentary soil, uh, clone 4407, which is, we think, the true DRC Domaine de l’Aroma de Conti clone that was earlier brought in errantly as, it wasn’t DRC clone, it was what we call A28 Pinot Noir, which grows straight up. [00:34:48] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: But, um, there’s very, very little of this planted in Oregon, and, um, Sterling Fox then, uh, planted this, um, you know, works for Quailhurst and at the time, uh, for Janice Pate, and he planted 4407. One acre. So I was the first winemakers, to the best of my knowledge, to work with 4407 commercially, and there’s not a lot of it planted. [00:35:12] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Uh, really tiny, you know, Pinot Noir means a little like, you know, black pine cone, right? In French, they are little pine cones. It’s really concentrated wines, different than any of the other clones. So, single vineyard, single clone. [00:35:25] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, no, nice. I, I am a fan. [00:35:27] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: 95 point scores from a questionable vintage. You, you know, I [00:35:33] A.J. Weinzettel: Close to the fire. [00:35:34] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, very, very close to the fire. And I’ve, you know, I’ve been a fan of Janus and Arlen since Uh, early 2020 mm-Hmm. and, you know, just what she’s doing out there and what she’s doing with the farm is absolutely, [00:35:49] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: you know, spectacular. Yeah. Yeah. She’s having a lot of fun out there. Yeah. That kinda reminds me that I contacted you knowing that you do the podcasts. [00:35:57] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Right. And part of the reason I did that is, you know, I wanted to be part of it. Whatever, whatever we did, you know, it tasted Rose or ria, but, um. 2020 was on my mind. I had suggested to you. Right. And why did I do that? Because, um, I wanted to share my story and what we did. Yeah, I mean, I need to sell wine, but, um, also for the purpose of giving back to the industry. [00:36:22] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Um. Not that anybody asked me to do that, but I mean, the industry’s been really good to me and I love to share information. And I remember when I was young, looking over somebody’s shoulders and, you know, or as an assistant winemaker, you’re always, Why is he doing that? Or I would do it differently. And, um, just having had a lot of experience with Trying to make a silk purse out of a so ear, sometimes , as we all have, as winemakers. [00:36:47] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: It’s like, right, you know, lots of detritus or a lot of sunburn or, uh, God, 2013 with fruit flies and larvae in the tanks and you know, you name it, I’ve seen it. Oh, I have no doubt. In 2010, we didn’t start picking grapes until October 18th. Holy cow. Yeah, um, so I kind of thought, you know, I’d share my story and if people are interested, that’s great. [00:37:11] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: If, if it helps benefit the industry, um, I’ve had other winemakers here, a really famous person from Sonoma that tasted these wines, he says, you got to be kidding me, these are, this is 2020. I said, yeah, they deal with smoke all the time down there. So I’m happy to share the story about what we did because we’re going to see, we’re going to see this again. [00:37:30] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Blonde Oak Chips, guys, it works. Yeah, and uh, No reverse osmosis, no carbon, no this, no that, no pixie dust. It just works. [00:37:38] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, it does work. And, uh, Travis Todd, you know, he worked at, you know, Wine by Joe. And he has his, he has his own label called De La Boo. Yeah. And, you know, when I talked to him, he’s like, Oh yeah, I got so much information from Joe on the 2020 and how to like, how to, you know, actually work with, you know, my own wine for 2020. [00:37:58] A.J. Weinzettel: So, I mean, you’re, you’re teaching so many people and providing. So much [00:38:04] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: valuable information. Well, you know, all, um, what, uh, rising tide lifts all boats. Right? Of course. Um, so, and another thing that, you know, in 2020, I was like, okay, do you go for it, or do you spend, uh, you know, forest fire kind of vintage like that, quick and dirty on the skins and get it off the skins? [00:38:22] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I went for it. I mean, heated fermentation, uh, didn’t shorten the fermentation, didn’t… I didn’t use any whole clusters that I remember, uh, with the stems in there, which is atypical for me, but, um, I, [00:38:35] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: if there is any, and this is an interesting story, any, any of the, uh, the, you know, the chemicals that are indicative of smoke taint in here, um, I honestly haven’t even done a measurement, chemical analysis, right? I haven’t sent it to the lab. And the reason for that is really interesting. I think Alex Sokol Blosser did a great service to the industry. [00:38:57] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: He took some 2017 Pinot Noir that was made, Blossom Ridge, right at the end of the… driveway here, that’s owned by my neighbor, who I make some wine for. And he did, uh, the analysis and found all the smoke taint, uh, you know, precursors and chemicals, uh, compounds that are indicative of smoke in a 2017 wine that never saw a forest fire. [00:39:21] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Well, hello, where did that come from? Do you think it came from the toasted French oak barrels? Of course. That’s where it came from. Right. And compared it to 2020? And they were fairly similar as far as, you know, quantitatively the compounds. And so it’s like, okay, where am I going with this is you’re, you’re better off just to, you know, use more new oak and you get some smokiness from new oak, you know, depending upon the toast level. [00:39:48] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Correct. But in my opinion, it’d be a mistake. To try to lighten the load on the wine, in other words, try to make something that’s a little more simple and less time on the skins than what we had success with, which is what I do every year anyway. Right. In fact, you know, um, the, the blonde oak chips, uh, I had used them at Wine by Joe year in and year out for machine picked fruits, as I shared with you, but you know, um, I now use it every single vintage. [00:40:15] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Interesting. 2021, 22, 23. We have one fermenter right now that’s still, you know, Eola Springs down the hill here. It’s going to get pressed out a couple days from now. It’s got oak chips in it. Ferment on them. Because it does such a great job and, uh, and we sort. Uh, we had one vineyard that had a fair amount of sunburned berries. [00:40:37] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: They don’t taste good. Yeah, right. The oak chips do a great job to mitigate that. But also if you’ve been, you know, you, you get the, the, the chafe from the flowers that are stuck inside the, the clusters after they bloom. And if you look in the bucket, you’ll see all kinds of that, you know, dried up flowers. [00:40:55] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Well, that all ends up in the fermenter. There’s no way in hell you’re going to sort that out. No, there’s no way. So the oak chips help mitigate that. It also helps fix color. Um. And then there’s always some little tiny green shot berries that are in there, and I believe that it, you know, mitigates whatever comes from those little green berries too. [00:41:14] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yeah, I can imagine. [00:41:15] A.J. Weinzettel: You know, so then at that point, I mean, what is your, and it’s going to have to be an educated guess, because we, you know, it’s difficult to 100 percent know, but how do you think that these will [00:41:26] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: age over time? How are they going to age? Yeah. Um, [00:41:28] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I guess time will tell. You know, one way to do that is keep the bottles open and just give them some air. Right. And, you know, predispose them to aging artificially. Um, so far they don’t, they aren’t showing like a barbecue wine. That’s great. Or smoky. [00:41:42] A.J. Weinzettel: Right, right. So, yeah, no, that, that’s, it’s, it’s always an interesting question because, you know, those that didn’t make pinot, they’re like, drink them now because we just don’t know. [00:41:51] A.J. Weinzettel: That’s [00:41:51] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: right. Yeah. And I have seen a few. It’s like, Oh, you open it up. Even the course over a couple hours. It’s like, Oh yeah, it’s starting to show up a little bit. Um, again, everybody’s hyper focused on 2020s. Of course. You find that, you know, bury these in some 18s or 19s or whatever, see if somebody goes, Oh, Oh, Oh, That’s a 2020. [00:42:09] A.J. Weinzettel: I don’t from what I’m tasting here so far. There’s I don’t think anybody would be able to say oh, that’s 2020 Yeah, [00:42:15] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: thanks. And um, you know, I’ve tasted other 2020 pinots that I would say the same Right. You know, you would know it’s 2020. No, you would not. Power suggestion. That’s why a good, you know, a review that’s truly done blind is, is a good review. [00:42:30] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. You may not always like what the reviewer came up with, but it’s a way to keep them honest. That, that it is. Yeah. All right. Shall we move on to the next? We shall. Okay. Uh, the next one is a Simonette owned by Tom Simonette. So this is the one that I first worked with. In 1989, uh, which was my first shared vintage with Ken Ryde, the only shared vintage with Ken Ryde at Eola Hills Wine Cellars. [00:42:52] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So I’d come back from Burgundy from the 88 vintage, summer of 89 I came back, Eola Hills hired me as their lead winemaker. Shared the vintage with Ken and then he left, um, and I did the 90 vintage. And, uh, some of that is… It’s an amazing vineyard. It’s on what I call the first bench. So we’re on what I call the Yola bench. [00:43:09] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: You got the valley floor that right down here is, uh, I don’t know, 225, 250 feet. And Seminada is around 350. And then it kind of comes up the hill and then at the bottom of our vineyard is 450 feet and then 650. And north to south here, there’s a number of, there’s six of us, I guess. Right at the end of my driveway and then going south and some damn good vineyards. [00:43:29] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yeah. Um, some that aren’t known yet that will, will be known, but um, Sojourner, Yolo Springs, uh, Schindler is the furthest north. And I call this kind of mid. mid part of the hill, the Eola Bench, and I know you’re familiar with Burgundy. The Grands Crus are generally in the center of the hill, and why is that? [00:43:49] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: It’s a little bit warmer because the valley floor cools off first, cool air condense, you know, it’s like water, right? It’s more dense, it hugs the ground, it cools off first and warms up later. If you’re too high on the hill, It cools off sooner, and the center of the hill ends up being the warmer spot. [00:44:06] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: There are a few exceptions to that, like Clos de Bourgeois is down on the flats, and you would look at that and say, well, that’s a village, village one. No, it’s not. It’s a concrete. It’s a damn good one. But there’s always exceptions to the rule. Always, yeah. Yeah. Um, so Simonette, uh, I digress. Uh, we think it was planted around, it was between 1882, so, uh, Winklis and Seeley came up from California and planted, um, um, Bethel Heights. [00:44:31] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yes. Witness tree, um, at the time was, uh, Jared, I think now witness tree and then, uh, O’Connor vineyards and several others. They did these big, wide plantings, you know, like 12 feet wide. Wow. You could drive a back truck down it. Um, but anyway, so it was planted around that time. And then, uh, Corky Isselhardt bought it from the Tupper family. [00:44:53] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I worked with those grapes during that period. And then Tom Simonat bought it, and, uh, quite a number of years ago. And we did, uh, single vineyard, I think, 2006? First one from… Seminette Vineyard. Right. Used to be called Neusser Schweinejo, but he, uh, ceases to exist as somebody, so just calls it Seminette. [00:45:11] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: But it, it’s a magical vineyard. In 2010, as I said, we didn’t start picking until, um, October 16th or 18th, and we did over 3, 000 tons as a company. Wow. Custom winemaking, wine by Joe, and then, um, Stubbs, this is a lot smaller than people think. But, um. The Ripest grapes we got was 21 and a half bricks, and that was like a couple of pile of them. [00:45:33] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Wow. And um, some of that came in at 24 bricks. [00:45:36] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I, I, you gotta be kidding me. I mean, it looked like it was grown in Napa or something. I don’t know. I mean, it made amazing wine, uh, ages really well, but there’s something really special about the vineyard. Pommard and Bainesville. It was planted back in the early 80s and there’s a few other clones in there now, but right now I’m working with, you know, Pinot Noir that was planted in the early 80s. [00:45:55] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: That’s nice. Bainesville [00:45:56] A.J. Weinzettel: and Pommard. Oh, I [00:45:57] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: love that combination. Yeah. Oh, by the way, I have a surprise wine for you too, don’t let me forget. Oh, okay. Or, a surprise product. Okay, that sounds great. So that’s Simonette. Um, and then we’ve got Yule Bench. Yeah, [00:46:10] A.J. Weinzettel: I’ll try that one real quick. I will say as we’re progressing, I’m enjoying these more and more and more. [00:46:16] A.J. Weinzettel: Oh, good. [00:46:17] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: They’re opening up? Yes. That’s always a good thing. Hopefully they’re going in the right direction. I thoroughly, [00:46:23] A.J. Weinzettel: yes, I would agree. Oh, and as I’m kind of, uh, Swirling this around. So your daughter Amelia. Mm hmm. You know, she has grown up with wine and You know, I think she’s been quoted to say, you know, yeah in college, you know, she kind of skipped that whole cheap wine phase and wine in a Brown bag and just, you know, had the reedle with Oregon Pinot in it. [00:46:47] A.J. Weinzettel: She [00:46:47] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: went right to the single [00:46:48] A.J. Weinzettel: vineyards. Exactly. Um, what kind of legacy are you trying to leave for Amelia? [00:46:54] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Um, I love working with my daughter. I mean, she’s doing a great job at Flaneur. She was the assistant marketing director at Dobbs for a number of years. And Flanneur recruited her and she said, okay, I said, Hey, make your decision. [00:47:07] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And she’s knocked out of the ballpark there, um, as a marketing director. And she works part time for us. Uh, you know, all the, uh, social media, et cetera. Right, right. We wouldn’t be, uh, the company we’ve, we’re on the wine club precipitously and things are starting to, uh, catch some steam. And she’s. It’s been really important beyond that project, you know. [00:47:28] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yeah, do [00:47:28] A.J. Weinzettel: you think that she’ll make any wine? She’s [00:47:31] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: actually making a barrel right now. Oh, that’s awesome. It’s been pressed out. It’s a blend of the 114 and 115 from our estate. So you’ve got the red fruit and the blue fruit. Oh. I don’t know, 10 gallons last year from 1 1 4. And this year she’s making a whole barrel. [00:47:44] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: That’s awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:47:45] A.J. Weinzettel: I’m, I’m sure you, I don’t know. I mean, I have a 15 year old daughter. I would be proud as all get out. I mean, yeah. I’m sure you’re proud [00:47:52] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: as well. Yeah, I, I am. She’s got her daddy’s edge. I’m really proud of her. , um, yeah. Legacy, uh, where she’s grown up in the business and this is what she does, so it would, who knows what the future’s gonna hold, right. [00:48:04] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I would love to see her get more and more involved over time, but she’s really loving what she’s doing right now with Planoer, and they treat her really well, and she’s running the show, you know, so, yeah. That’s great, that’s great. So, the black label, [00:48:17] A.J. Weinzettel: holy cow. Thank you. There’s no way, you, if you were just to pour that for somebody, there’s no way in heck that they would think that’s a [00:48:26] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: 2020. [00:48:26] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yeah, it’s, uh, you know, it’s still young. It’s still coming out. And all these wines, you know, they’re 18 months, 16, 18 months in barrel and then bottled. Um, I’m really pleased with the way it’s progressing. And again, this is kind of, I, I don’t know if it’ll ever happen. It’s going to be a lot of work, but I would love to see a sub, sub AVA, Eola Bench within the Eola Amity Hills. [00:48:46] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I don’t know if something like that would ever happen, but, uh, nonetheless. Uh, it’s on the label and Right. You know, starting in 2020 we did, you know, got 2021 in the bottle. 2022 in the, the cellar. Yet that’s gonna get blended bottled in the spring. Right. Oh. So yeah, that would be pretty spectacular. . You wanna try my little mystery? [00:49:05] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Uh, yeah, that would be great. I get up and grab it from the fridge, you know. Okay. Yeah, no, I, that would be great. [00:49:10] A.J. Weinzettel: It’s definitely a mystery wine with, uh, the, you know, isn’t that a cool bottle? That is a [00:49:14] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: very cool bottle. It’s a sample, I got a couple cases of these that were sent to me for Dundee Mobile Bottlers Modeling Company. [00:49:21] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: They wanted to… Yeah, so I, I’m, I’m [00:49:23] A.J. Weinzettel: looking at it, it looks super thick, I’m almost thinking this might be a base wine for sparkling. That’s my guess right now. [00:49:29] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Let’s see what you think. [00:49:30] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Oh, wow. What’s it smell like? [00:49:32] A.J. Weinzettel: It, it, it doesn’t taste, I mean it doesn’t smell like this, but my first like, vroom, it was like, oh, orange juice. And I, and I know it’s not orange juice, but I mean [00:49:40] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: that was like, There’s no alcohol on here, so this is juice. Okay. Okay, but it’s something, I think something that’s going to be really special. [00:49:47] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Oh. I get a whole bunch of, uh, like apricot, peaches, honey. [00:49:52] A.J. Weinzettel: I can definitely, I definitely do get the apricot in, you know, and when I said orange juice, it was just that initial, [00:49:59] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: like, this is [00:50:00] A.J. Weinzettel: bright. This is like, this is [00:50:02] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: fruity. This is, and this is just juice. Okay. So this is, um, 2023 Late Harvest Sauvignon Blanc going to ferment like a Sauternes, which I’ve done once before in 1990. [00:50:15] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So this is, oh my gosh, 34 breaths. Wow. It had arthritis. Um, it’s, we’ve got a brand new Sorry, S A U R Y, um, French oak barrel. Uh, and I’ve got 74 gallons of this, so 60 of it will go into the barrel, the rest will be, you know, in a keg and then for topping wine. Wow. We’ll bottle it in 375, so this will be something to be Wine Club exclusive. [00:50:38] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Full Circle Society. And this is part of the passion project. I did it once before. Um, turned out beautifully. So, you know, more experience. And, uh, I don’t know how many years, 38 vintages or something like that later. Here we are. You get to have some fun. [00:50:54] A.J. Weinzettel: That’s [00:50:54] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: delicious. I don’t know if I would have done this, but I can’t remember for the life of me who it was. [00:50:58] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: It was either a customer or a friend of mine said, you know, you should do like a sauterne. Eh, it’s a lot of work, you know. And yeah, right. So it’s an old friend. Yeah, no, that’s… Ian Underwood. Yeah. That was so me on Blanc Vineyard, right across from the, right across from the winery. It’s a three minute drive. [00:51:15] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: That’s, that is great. Pretty even. [00:51:16] A.J. Weinzettel: So I have some rapid fire questions for you. Mm hmm. And then after that, we’ll reveal the blind wine, and I’ll get you out of [00:51:22] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: here. Oh, okay. Um, so [00:51:24] A.J. Weinzettel: favorite artist to listen [00:51:25] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: to during harvest? Oh, boy. Um, my favorite band is Simply Red. Okay. They are on their 40th anniversary tour across Europe right now. [00:51:35] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Oh. He’s English. And when I was in Germany, Actually, I was in Austria at the time, but living in Germany, a good buddy of mine, Brian Van Meter, came over and we, um, we lived the high life for a couple of weeks in KitzbĂĽhel, Austria. It’s kind of the Las Vegas of Austria. Right. Skiing, partying like animals. [00:51:51] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: We’d get up. eat a huge breakfast, go skiing, go to the Londoner pub, tie a few on and then go dancing half a night and then do it again. And, um, that’s when I was younger and I was in this nightclub and, uh, Nick from Simply Red was playing and strobes were going and I was like, I love this guy. And I listened to his music a lot. [00:52:12] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Um, generally, I’ve got, um, Joey C. He is my, uh, assistant during harvest. He does an amazing job. He, um, worked with me when we were making our wines at Bryn Mawr for several years, and he was their employee, and he can do the work of two people. He’s amazing. We don’t need even to talk much. It just happens. [00:52:30] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Right. He’s a perfect employee. That’s great. Uh, really, uh, He plays kind of hard rock music. So it’s like, okay, I let my employees play what they want. Right, right, right. So I’m like, Oh God, can we change this? I’m not a hard rock guy. Right, right. I can understand. I can understand. I’m not a strictly Frank Sinatra either, but you know, I do enjoy it. [00:52:49] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So does Joey. But anyway, yeah. So, um, Simply Red. Very nice. If you haven’t listened to them, the guy’s amazing. [00:52:56] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, no, I very much remember Simply Red. Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:59] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Uh, your favorite indulgent food? Oh God, a really good pizza. Okay. Yeah, I can, I can pack it away. Anyone will tell you that. Um, favorite food is probably French cuisine though with sauce. [00:53:11] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I’m kind of a food snob. No, that’s when I laughed about when I was in Burgundy, working with Lafon, uh, lived with Christophe for about nine months. And I joked that the little bit of money that I made went towards toothpaste and Michelin restaurants. Um, and so I can name, you know, the who’s who of Burgundy, there were buddies of Christophe’s and I was just a hanger on and I was, It was a big part of my education. [00:53:38] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I was just a big sponge and we’d anyway, we’d go out to Michelin restaurants and everybody would bring wines and tastings in their cellar and all that. So, wow. Anyway, [00:53:47] A.J. Weinzettel: uh, harvest notes, are they digital or handwritten? [00:53:50] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Handwritten and very few [00:53:52] A.J. Weinzettel: of them. Because you got it all up here, right? [00:53:54] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I, uh, sold some, a little bit of fruit to, um, A really neat, neat guy that’s getting into the business from my estate and, uh, I told him when he was at the winery the other day, um, I said, you’d be surprised how much little chemistry I actually do. [00:54:10] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Right. Um, uh, I, I honestly don’t, I don’t take bricks on a daily basis during fermentation. Stick my nose in it, stick my hand in it, I taste it, it looks good. Next. There you go. Well, you know, I mean, Oh, it smells great. You know, write it down. Right, right, right. Why? I mean, I put the attention where it needs to go, and I do measure bricks early on. [00:54:30] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I do some chemistries, of course, after four or five days, you know, harvest numbers. Right. So you use a similar nitrogen and just send it to, you know, one of the labs, UTS or Core. They do a great job. Um, we’re lucky to have them. They do a great job in the industry. And, um, you know, post pressing, of course, et cetera, et cetera, and, you know, do I need to make any ACID ads and things like that, but I, I don’t do, I don’t take a lot of notes. [00:54:54] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: That’s right. Do you have a notebook? I’ve got about three pages from the vintage. And the notes would be, you know, maybe ACID trials or something that’s just kind of outside of the daily norm. Right. Like, why did I do this or what? What was I thinking? Why did I do this? Right. Where do I want to go? But okay. [00:55:12] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. No, that that’s good. Um, if you could choose a superpower, what would it be? [00:55:16] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Flying. Okay. Yeah, I’ve had many dreams of just flying. That would be, that would be, yeah, that would be amazing. Awesome. My dream, I guess is a superpower, is to go back into history. Like here we are this beautiful 21 acre estate where I live. [00:55:31] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: What was this like a hundred years ago? Wouldn’t that be cool? [00:55:33] A.J. Weinzettel: That would be so cool. I would love to do that. Yeah, just observe and not, like, mess with anything in the past. [00:55:39] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Just observe. What did this look like? Who was here? I would love to go back to, you know, when the Native Americans were inhabiting Oregon. [00:55:47] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: What was it like? Lewis and Clark days, etc. That would be Really awesome. Yes, the [00:55:52] A.J. Weinzettel: last book you read. I mean, it could be physical. It could be audible, or it could even be interesting, [00:55:57] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: even be like a podcast or something. I read technical stuff. I’d be kind of my YouTube jump junkie. Honestly, I mean, you can just get lost for hours on how to do this or that. [00:56:09] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: You know, I grew up hunting and fishing. So I enjoy a lot of that stuff. And, uh, animal, how is it Richard Attenborough? Help me out here, the um, [00:56:17] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: anyway, I just watched it the other day, it’s a series, but um, on the animals and the world and the planet and Nova, things like that, I’m really into, last book I don’t even remember what I read. It’s okay, yeah, I was just, yeah, but this did, this did bring up a [00:56:31] A.J. Weinzettel: random question for you, you know, you grew up bass fishing and you know, do you know who Bill Dance [00:56:37] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: is? [00:56:37] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I, I don’t. Okay, that, that’s okay. [00:56:40] A.J. Weinzettel: Right, so he, um, TV show, uh, Pro Best Fisherman out of Tennessee. Oh, okay, alright. And I was just curious if you knew him, because No, no. Ten ish years ago, I actually, you know, developed his iPhone app for him and got to work with him and what not. Oh, really? I’ll be damned. [00:56:55] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, so I was [00:56:55] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: just curious. Yeah, um, I don’t hunt and fish much anymore. I mean, we had a, we had a boat that we used to do a lot of ocean fishing. Tuna, halibut, salmon. Right. Epic, epic. Oh, I can imagine. With my family and friends and, uh, this business kind of got in the way of that. It does happen. Patricia convinced me to sell it. [00:57:13] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: So I have friends with boats. That’s the best kind of [00:57:16] A.J. Weinzettel: friends. Shall I reveal the wine? Yeah. [00:57:18] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Okay. No clue. So, [00:57:20] A.J. Weinzettel: again, I tried to find something that had a connection to you. Yeah. Right? So, and we were talking about 2020s today. And so this is a 2020 Arlen Pinot Noir. No kidding. No kidding. [00:57:31] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: And this was picked before the fires. [00:57:33] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Before the fires. Before the fires. Wow. Yeah. Uh, that was made by Tolma then at Lingua Franca. Correct. Yeah. You [00:57:41] A.J. Weinzettel: know, so I knew Good job. Tamma comes. Yeah. I I I knew that you had an Arlin. Yeah. And I loved how you went so deep into Arlin during the, the conversation here. And I was like, yeah. [00:57:51] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yes. I made a connection. [00:57:53] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Yeah. It was, uh, it is more red fruited. Um, ours is a little more blue fruited, and I think it’s, I don’t know the clones. It’s not 44 0 7, but I don’t know if it was picked before the fires. It was picked earlier, where it would be a little more red fruited, hence my connection to 15. Right? And the wine’s fresh. [00:58:13] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: It’s not, doesn’t show any age. Right. Thank you. Yeah, no, thank you. [00:58:17] A.J. Weinzettel: That’s, [00:58:17] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: that was fun. Yeah, no, that was. Yeah. [00:58:19] A.J. Weinzettel: Uh, [00:58:19] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: you know, well, we’ll see, we’ll see. [00:58:21] A.J. Weinzettel: Um, I want to thank you so much for taking the time today to do this. This was an absolute blast. [00:58:27] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Thank you. Yes. And when this is fermented, I’ll make sure you get some, um, Oregon salt turned. [00:58:31] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, no, that’s, that would be great. Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, thank you so much. [00:58:35] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: Thanks. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for joining me on this flavorful voyage through the [00:58:39] A.J. Weinzettel: world of wine on the White Notes podcast. [00:58:42] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: I’ve been your host and guide, [00:58:43] A.J. Weinzettel: AJ Weinzettel, and it’s been an absolute pleasure sharing these captivating stories with you. [00:58:48] A.J. Weinzettel: But alas, like the last sip of a fine vintage, our time together must end. But don’t fret, my wine loving friend, the Wine Notes podcast will always remain open. Waiting for you to return and explore new conversations, stories, [00:59:03] Joe Dobbes from Iterum Wines: and musings from the [00:59:03] A.J. Weinzettel: captivating people behind the magical world of wine. Before you go, hit that subscribe button on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and don’t forget to leave a sparkly 5 star review to help spread the word. [00:59:15] A.J. Weinzettel: Until our glasses clink again, remember to savor life’s moments and let the spirit of wine [00:59:20] A.J. Weinzettel: Cheers. And as always, may your wine glass be full, your heart be light, and your journey be delightful.
