In the summer of 2021, when I was doing my Sparkling Report, a winemaker, Kenny McMahon, reached out via Instagram, bringing awareness to his project, Arabilis, launching later in 2021. Naturally, I was super excited, and in another message, Kenny let me know his still wines were being released, and Sparkling still had a couple of years left before being released.
Since the initial message in 2021, we have messaged back a forth a little here and there. When Lundeen was holding their first pickup party this past summer, I was hopeful Kenny would be there to put a name to a face. Unfortunately, our paths didn’t cross. During the Thanksgiving weekend, I finally had the pleasure of meeting Kenny and his wife, Allison!
I did my initial research as I always do for the podcast, and I must tell you I had to stop myself from nerding out with Kenny about Sparkling. I try not to nerd out too much, but when discussing his Master’s dissertation on the influence of different sugar levels on the tirage, there is some nerd wine talk. Allison wasn’t there for the interview, but we also got into her story and how she investigated the impact of tannin and alcohol content on the sensory profile.
Kenny and Allison met at Washington State University, and the story of how they met is incredible! I am pretty darn sure you haven’t heard of Arabilis yet, but rest assured you will hear about them in the coming years! Their first Sparkling is releasing this Fall. Before listening to the podcast, you must visit their website and sign up for the mailing list pronto! Their Pinot and Chardonnay still wines are also exceptional. Eventually, their goal is to be around a 95% Sparkling House.
Transcription of winemaker interview with Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines in Oregon’s Willamette Valley[00:00:00] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Cheers to another [00:00:06] A.J. Weinzettel: episode of a Wine Notes podcast. I’m your guide AJ Wine Dule on this journey of stories showcasing the people behind the wonderful world of wine where we dive into conversations ranging from PIR viticulture to favorite music [00:00:19] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: superpowers, and more. [00:00:21] A.J. Weinzettel: Please enjoy this episode of the Wino podcast. [00:00:25] A.J. Weinzettel: Kenny, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you taking the time and, uh, it’s always a pleasure to, to talk with you. [00:00:32] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Hey Jay, it’s, uh, wonderful to be here with you today, virtually. Um, so glad we have this time and thanks for putting us together. [00:00:41] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, no, most definitely. I know, uh, I think the first time we chatted was the summer of 2020 and I was putting together my, my sparkling report. [00:00:50] A.J. Weinzettel: And, uh, since then I’ve been kind of following your journey. And finally, uh, last year, uh, 2022, during the Thanksgiving weekend, we got to meet face to face. I was like, wow. [00:01:01] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Finally, I know, I, I forgot the, yeah, when that sparkling report. You were writing that, I was like, oh man, that’s gonna be on our radar for the future, cuz we definitely wanna be a part of that lineup. [00:01:14] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: It was quite a producer list that you procured, so definitely wanna be a part of that, that community and that, that was our vision from the get-go and I’m glad we were able to meet in person in November 22. Now. . Yeah, [00:01:31] A.J. Weinzettel: yeah. No, it’s, that’s crazy that it took two years for us to actually , you know, see one another. [00:01:36] A.J. Weinzettel: But, you know, it, it’s been great to keep in contact a little bit here and there. [00:01:40] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah. Yep. [00:01:42] A.J. Weinzettel: So, starting off, uh, you know, I’m, I’m probably gonna mispronounce your, your winery’s name, but that I, I want to know exactly how to pronounce it correctly. So, is it Aras? . [00:01:53] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yep. Yep. You nailed it. So not, not many people do, but we answer to a lot of it. [00:02:00] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: But yeah, S is how we’ve been pronun pronunciation it, and it’s from the Latin word, araise. And so that’s the Latin meaning farm. or ADO or arable land. And that’s our aspiration in terms of our brand name and kind of the ethos that we’re going after. And you know, we’ve been pretty fortunate enough to get into some vineyard sourcing. [00:02:28] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: You know, we’re a negotiation right now. Um, but the vineyard sources that we’re doing are pretty. Top notch as far as, you know, in the Yola Hills. Um, and our, you know, and what we’re seeing and, you know, there are definitely more and more, but, um, our aspiration is to be a grower producer of traditional methods, sparkly wine. [00:02:47] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And so our brand name is Aras for a reason, and hopefully one day we, we can get. Yeah, [00:02:55] A.J. Weinzettel: no, that, that would be absolutely amazing. Is there, is, is there any sort of story or anything behind of like how you came upon that name or anything of that nature? . [00:03:05] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah, so we, my wife Alison and I, it’s just the two of us and um, it’s been a dream of ours to start a project like this and we’ve been looking for a while in terms of where we could do sparkling wine. [00:03:22] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I mean, she studied for her PhD, red wine finish, and that’s why we started with Pinot Noir in 2018 and 2019. It’s kind of the framework. It was, you know, you can’t not join the Willamette Valley without a Pinot Noir. So it made sense strategically and then, um, we were like, man, okay, we need to start thinking about sparkling because the sooner we start making it, the sooner we can reach our customers like you. [00:03:52] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Um, so the Willamette Valley made sense. . It wasn’t the first place we were looking. We were originally looking in the Columbia Gorge, um, because you know, you have Chris and Steven from Alema. There was a ton of momentum from High U. Uh, you’ve got the St. Kline that’s doing some really great sparkling out there in in Lyle, and some even just like pushing the western, like eastern edge of where you can grow Pinot noir and Chardon. [00:04:25] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: in the cord. So, um, that’s where we were, we were thinking. And so what we realized quickly though is that there are very few sites planted. There’s definitely more coming. Um, but for where we needed to be, it was, you know, part of that. So I don’t know if I really answered your question about the , the, the, the name, but for me, I guess, you know, looking at that, the, we were working with the brand team, Gato Riviera, down in Napa, and they were just helping us with the design and we came to them with a couple ideas and so did they. [00:05:02] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And, um, they’re just, you know, Started out it was. Tim Gato and Raquel Gato, husband and wife team. And then now with Antonio Riviera, the other part, um, you know, they were, you know, helping us make sure that we were following kind of like the brand DNA within that. So we came in with a Rams and you know, the, obviously there were others. [00:05:24] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I can definitely show you our list right over a glass of wine sometime and you could probably , see why we didn’t go with some of those, [00:05:32] A.J. Weinzettel: right. No, I was, I was just curious. Um, I, I read somewhere that you, that you’ve tasted your first, had your first sip of Chardonnay at 12. And like right from there you were like, yep. [00:05:46] A.J. Weinzettel: That that’s what I want to do. C i i I I need some more detail on that. I mean, holy cow. 12 [00:05:52] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: years old. Yeah. That’s, uh, so it’s a, it’s a memory that stuck in my mind forever and that kind of was the. The inception point of where we got to today and kind of my studies and everything. So my parents had really good friends from California and they, they moved to Cincinnati. [00:06:14] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: We got really close, and then when they moved back to California, they actually were in Napa, downtown Napa. And so, We did the kind of California wine tour in Napa and Sonoma and up in the redwoods in northern California. So some pretty cool sites. And one place that we were in was the mountains of kind of mountain territory above Napa and, uh, harvest time. [00:06:39] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And I’m, I’m kind of explaining my whole like memory, right? So it’s been not drastic. It was foggy. You know, you had the forklifts beeping everywhere. It was chaos. They’re stocking bins. And the bins are, were too tall for me to even see what was in them. So like I just remember looking up and, you know, it’s just this like gray sky and cuz of the fog socked in and just not knowing what I’m reaching into. [00:07:04] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And I see like this just golden cluster and I’m like, whoa. You know? And the wine, the winemakers like taste them, like go for. You know, clearly, like first thing is like instant burst of flavor and sweetness, and then you hit the scene and you’re like, okay, these aren’t table grapes for one, but these are amazing. [00:07:23] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So what is this? And you know, we went down in the cellar and sniffed the barrels that were fermenting of those same, you know, same grapes, everything. I’m like, God, this is unbelievable. Like what? It just felt so cool. It was secluded, it was tight. I love, I don’t know why used as a kid, I know it’s like spaces and crawling and tunnels and stuff. [00:07:46] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Right, right. But, uh, yeah, I just had this, I don’t know, ethereal feeling that stuck with me and, uh, spawn this idea of like, how can I make this a profession? But at the time, like I didn’t know what that was. You know, I loved being outside and. Dale would around a lot of internships that were unrelated to wine and food and kind of where my passions lied from that point to give me, give me. [00:08:18] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Wow. [00:08:18] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, no, that’s, that’s pretty amazing. It’s, you know, it, in reading that and just seeing that, you know, your, you know, your, your trajectory was kind of already said at 12 and, you know, Allison also, you know, went to college for wine. Uh, and it, it just fascinates me that. , the both of you were like, yeah, we’re, I’m gonna go to college for wine and study wine. [00:08:44] A.J. Weinzettel: Uh, what is Allison’s backstory on how, like what got her [00:08:49] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: into wine? Yeah, so hers is a little, is interesting because she was studying, she went to Santa Clara for undergrad, studied biology and. She is way smarter, way smarter than I am. So like from a, she tested in and got into optometry school and but her, she wasn’t gonna start until like the year after. [00:09:17] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So what did she do? She, she’s like, okay, I’m gonna go work, stay Lodi and just hang out with my friends after college for half a semester. And then the following spring semester, I’ll. , what am I gonna do? I’m gonna go to Wssu and test into food science. So she, she was in the food science program, right? Of Wssu studying Syrah and sh it like instantly was like, okay, this is what I gotta do. [00:09:50] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I mean, she loved the wine scene. She loved, you know, the beauty being outside again, like, Being part of this like community. Um, and she saw that down in Lodi, right? Um, but when, you know, when she got to wsu, she’s like, wow, I didn’t know I could make like a serious career out of this. Um, and so yeah, she, she, she voided her ticket to optometry school after that initial semester at WSU and said like, they’re paying me to go to school to research wine. [00:10:24] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: and I don’t have a $300,000 debt ticket after opt October school. Yeah. So like this is a no-brainer, right? No, that, that, that is [00:10:32] A.J. Weinzettel: a no-brainer. [00:10:33] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah. Yeah. She’s, she’s definitely the business savvy of, of the bunch here. [00:10:38] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, you know, you gotta have equal parts. Most definitely. Yeah. and, and wasn’t she, uh, she was your tour guide or something? [00:10:45] A.J. Weinzettel: Wasn’t. [00:10:46] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah, that’s the, uh, kind of other part of this. I, I signed that, that solid line right then and there when I, when I saw her. But, um, jokes, jokes aside. Yeah. I, um, was on a tour, uh, to WSU when it was her. This is her first spring semester, right? So Right. She’s. living the life and it’s wintertime like it’s freezing. [00:11:10] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Cuz like I thought coming, coming from Kentucky, I’m like, oh, I’m going to the mountains. Like this would be awesome. I’m going to the west coast. Well, what they didn’t tell me was when you come over the I 90 pass and you just start seeing like a fellow I 26, um, you’re in the middle of wheat country, so it’s beautiful. [00:11:32] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So like there, there was so much beauty in that, that I was like, okay. , no mountains, but where am I? What is this place? And to have this kinda like utopian small town college, it just felt so, so familial to me. Right. Yeah. So she was my tour guide and. She did a great job, sold me right then and there . [00:11:53] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, that, that’s awesome. [00:11:54] A.J. Weinzettel: So at what point did y’all realize that both of you were studying wine and, you know, is there a moment? I love the story. Yeah, well, no. Yeah, sure. I love story. Let’s, let’s, yeah, I like that. Let’s, [00:12:08] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: let’s do that. Yeah. Sorry, I didn’t mean to interject, but, uh, yeah, so we were studying for our prelims PhD prelims, and so that’s part of the, The journey as far as the WSU program, you, you started out as a master’s student, even though, like you, you want to be a PhD, um, you have to test in, so I, I never read more test textbooks, front cover to cover than that period of time. [00:12:37] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And Allison, You know, what are like, what are you doing? Like, let’s be more efficient here. So like we, we formed kind of a group together and just kind of got to know each other pretty well during that, that time. So being study buddies and, um, yeah, we, it was nice cuz on the weekends we would just take breaks and go on road trips and, you know, one of our buddies was, uh, he, he calls himself the third wheel, but he wasn’t, he more of an instigator on this, but, uh, , he, he’d be like, on a Saturday morning, let’s go to Glacier Park and Allison. [00:13:14] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And I’d be like, okay. As long as we’re back by Monday to study again, like keep us on track, we’ll do it right. So like we just went to Glacier or we went to Walla Walla for a weekend on spring release and it was just like kept it light and hearted during this like, Intense time. And so we, we, we were always friends for Alice and I for two years before, before prelims, but that kind of, uh, sealed the deal. [00:13:42] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Very nice, man. [00:13:44] A.J. Weinzettel: That’s, that’s great. It’s, you know, you just never know what the, what the world is gonna give to you and poof. And now you are, now here you are like starting your own brand and, you know, and, you know, taking, you know, new ventures. Um, . So, you know, you mentioned earlier that Allison, you know, was doing, you know, studying Syrah and, you know, I think the, uh, impact of tannon and alcohol content, uh, and then your dissertation was on sparkling, right? [00:14:16] A.J. Weinzettel: Why, why did you choose sparkling? [00:14:19] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So, at the time when I started, and this was, you know, kind of going into grad school, You have to do a literature review and you know, scour all the citations and can understand, and I know I wanted to do, do white wine and, and sparkling, so I like, I had a sense, but when I started searching for sparkling wine in the literature, There was very little, especially in the us Most of it was in Spain or there was some in France. [00:14:54] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So Gerard Lager Valer, he, he was a really instrumental researcher at the time, taking like high speed, like one to 25,000 frame per second photos of sparkling wine. Bubbles, right? And fliers like in the glass. Just really trying to understand the physics and the kinetics of. traditional methods department line. [00:15:19] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So I was like, whoa, this is super, super interesting. And WSU had a, a sports research lab that had the exact camera. Cool. And so like the, the idea started is, okay, well how. , I, you know, you don’t want to duplicate research. That’s ridiculous. Like nobody there. That’s the point. You get published for original. [00:15:43] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So, um, as, as I was looking, I’m like, well, nobody’s fundamentally like we’re a food science program. Like let’s look at sugar, like sugar chemistry, and the two points of where sugar is added in traditional methods, sparkling wine. , the trage and the do both like critical steps in terms of like, you gotta ferment the same bottle that’s sold in and then you’re impacting the final profile of the wine. [00:16:13] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: It seemed like nobody was really doing this, so I, we approach it in a little bit of a different way. Like, okay, we’re profiling a line that’s, You know, we, we influenced the, um, with different sugar levels because at the time Pet Nets were really growing in popularity in, in Washington and Oregon. And the person who was the entity that was funding this research was St. [00:16:44] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Michelle. So like a lot of this was, you know, commercial scale. How do we understand the, the mouth feel of carbonation? because that was another aspect that I wasn’t seeing from a sensory standpoint. How do we define terms that one we can quantify, but also from a consumer standpoint, present them in a consumer language that’s acceptable and they can relate to that to understand liking. [00:17:13] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Um, not surprising. People will expect sparkling wine to be at a really high carbonation level, but there’s a willingness to buy or like, like a wine that’s at a pet net level. So it started like, okay, there’s an entry point here that we’re seeing. Um, and this was back in 2014, I think was our initial research on Tara, and then at the time, I, I was disc gorging. [00:17:43] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: A lot of wine treatment. Wine for this massage, massage study. So, um, we were looking at different sugar types, um, and different sugar levels. Right? The thing about research wine is you’re pushing the limits of what a commercial wine really is. So, like I had a demisse level, level, I, I don’t know how many people in the world have actually had demisse. [00:18:08] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: sparkling wine, they’re great. Um, right. They’re interesting. For this research, we were doing that for a reason cuz we wanted to see like, does that sugar impact the head space, like the polarity we’re changing the volatile matrix and everything from a chemistry standpoint, density standpoint. So it does have a high enough impact to the untrained nose and even trained nose, no to a gce. [00:18:36] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Gas Chromatographer. Gas chromatogram, excuse me. Um, maybe it’s trends. So it, it was a cool study cuz like we were fundamentally looking at sugar types. One cuz like there’s cost efficiencies there. Fruit sugar is way cheaper than cane sugar. Maybe there’s potential there. It’s not traditional, but you know, rectified, grape must concentrate is still being used in champaign today. [00:19:07] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So there are, there are levers people are pulling at the do the dose level. Okay. [00:19:15] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. No, and, and yeah, I can, I can only imagine how fun that that whole research study project was. It, uh, I know, you know, when I was talking, you know, to some, some other people that have done sparkling in Oregon, you know, they’re playing with different types of, of sugar and Yeah. [00:19:32] A.J. Weinzettel: Most people are like, yeah, it’s just, you know, household kind of sugar. [00:19:37] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So what’s interesting. is we, we did a honey trial last year. I’m being like, it’s cool cuz there’s so much honey. I mean, I wanna knock on Andy’s door and be like, Hey Andy Lightle. Right? Can I get some honey or, so, you know, some of these local bees, you know, on the, our property that we rent. [00:20:01] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Um, we had, uh, apiary that put their hives on the property, and so it’s like the, all the blackberry bushes and it’s some of the best honey I’ve ever had. Um, so I’ve been asking like, let’s put some away and. Have that special is kind of local source. You know, the place that we’re growing the grapes from because it’s literally right over the hill to Pearl Stat and some of these other sources that we’re getting grapes from. [00:20:29] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So it’d be kind of interesting and, you know, the bees are going that far. Um, but, uh, Clemont La large was, I think more the, I’m sure people were doing this before, but she was the one that commercialized it in Champaign. No, that [00:20:45] A.J. Weinzettel: would, that would be fun. I mean, to have natural, I mean to have just everything locally sourced. [00:20:51] A.J. Weinzettel: I mean, that, that would be, that’d be really amazing. [00:20:55] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: That’s a vi that’s a vision. I, you know, if we can get there and that, that was so cool. And we actually just went to Champaign in January and the, the economy there is so small. I mean, there are big entities, right? You have the big Grand Mars of. Huge, uh, suppliers there, but it’s so hyper focused on that industry that was so, like, it felt so relatable here to the Lo Lamba Valley. [00:21:22] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Obviously, you know, we’re, we’re maturing and sparkling wine. Um, and clearly like Andrew Davis’s, the spurred that momentum in terms of all of the growers that are here. So, um, you know, giving them a infrastructure right, to make sparkling wine. So one day we’ll get there. Yeah, [00:21:44] A.J. Weinzettel: yeah. No, and, and you know, you’re, you’re talking about your sh uh, trip to Champaign. [00:21:48] A.J. Weinzettel: I think you also mentioned how open and candid everybody was. I mean, I’m curious of like, some of the advice that you got and also, um, comparing that to the Oregon wine community. I mean, what, were there any sim [00:22:04] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: similarities? A hundred percent. Like it. mirror image almost. There’s definitely, um, a younger, you know, it’s the next generation that are taking over the domains, so. [00:22:19] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Right. Honestly, even this morning I just got back, you know, responses from Cedric Mosey and F Flavia, noac cuz we’ve been riding since that trip and they’ve been. Unbelievably friendly and open and, you know, want to share some of that knowledge. And so I, I mean, these guys are Instagram pen pals. I just literally cold called Cold called to him and wrote them in my botched French and Google translated French to them. [00:22:51] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And um, they were amazing. And so Gui Diar and Ben wa de, who are two of the other ones that we rent to in our tour, Lamar da like, They’re all like 28 years old to 50, like young, young family estates, and it was so, so cool to see, um, and honored that they spent the time. To, to sit down with us in, in the middle of January, cuz it definitely was a down period for sure. [00:23:27] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: All the grand marks were closed and it felt slow, like everybody was pruning. You know, you’d wake up in the morning and it felt like a, I don’t even like, just this medieval shell show that you’re watching, like birds are flying, the abbeys ringing the bells. All the white vans are pulling up into the vineyard and. [00:23:48] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: right? The guys are lighting up their cigarette, going out and pruning five rows and that’s their day. And it was so casual like it, right? I didn’t wanna leave. I the biggest mis, I think the one thing I wish I would’ve done was bring my work computer and just kept, kept going there. You know, just keep working and stay there for a month cuz, um, Yeah. [00:24:14] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And so these guys, as far as you asked about recommendation, um, we brought wine with us. We brought two cases of wine. Uh, we brought our pearl set, 2021 Yola Chard, and we also brought our 2020 Columbia Gorge sparkling wine. Just that that’s the one that we’re planning to release first before our other 2020. [00:24:38] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Right? And so, , um, yeah, disc discouraged it with them. I also left some, like Cedric wasn’t there, it was his, his staff, but left some with Cedric and that’s, he wrote to me last night and, you know, said he tasted and was, you know, already, like he’s, it’s tight in some regard, but he’s like, that’s a good thing, you know. [00:24:59] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Being reductive in a way that when you disc discourge it, you can pull some levers with the, but they were impressed. So it was nerve-wracking to say the least one dis discouraging in front of these guys cuz this is what they do. And from the crib basically for like , um, we’re just doing it. Olive Valle on the fly and the one that kind of, I was a. [00:25:26] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah. Holy shit. Moment. Part of my question. Yeah, yeah. No, you’re totally fine. Yeah, the, uh, disor it for gui Ard and he’s like, can I bring this to dinner tonight? And we’re like, yeah, sure. Like, sure is. Like we discorded it for you. And he is like, well, we have our grower meeting and it’s just like a bunch of friends of us. [00:25:49] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And I would love to just blind them and just see what they think. Like I won’t tell ’em who and where, and I. Play it off like it’s mine, right? And he sends a text that night that says like, uber impressed, super positive. Um, here’s who tasted it. And it was Rudolph Peters, Lamar, ger, bass, like Cappar, all these people that I’m like, holy shit, [00:26:20] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Do you realize like what? Just I was like, I am like, already, like I’m shaking now cause I’m, it, I can’t believe that, that that happened. And I’m like, well there’s, there’s excitement. It’s not a surprise that Rudolph Pierce, he was looking in Oregon before he started that Racine project down in, um, Santa Rita Hills or, and so that like, there’s interest, right? [00:26:49] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And I think it, it’s, you know, you’re seeing it now and, um, . I was just glad we showed up. Well, [00:26:56] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, no, I mean with, you know, with your background and I mean, yeah, no, that’s, uh, absolutely amazing and great that it showed so well, and yeah, I would be completely. Uh, blown away and nerved. Uh, well, yeah, I, my, my nerves would definitely be on edge and, uh, yeah, [00:27:17] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: it, it was cool cuz we got to taste a lot of different, different stages of the wine when we were there. [00:27:25] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Like they were just finishing, either they just finished primary or they were just finished secondary or going through secondary, so, . Um, I think one of the videos that, like our kind of synopsis video on Instagram was in Ben Waiss, um, cell, and he has all these different sized barrels and stuff and does primarily an oak. [00:27:48] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: He purely an oak. I think he only has three stainless steel tanks for reserve and even that doesn’t do too much. But he was just like, oh, come, come. Like sniff this one. Sniff this one. Oh, that’s too tight. Like this one’s starting to open up. We’ll, you know, dose. Tarara I won first or whatever. And it, it was just so awesome to see that passion and like even his passion for biodynamic, like all these guys are doing bio for the most part. [00:28:19] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Um, or organic. Either they’re claiming it or not. But, um, there’s definitely some energy in those wines. Some of the best experiences I’ve had, like sensations in the mouth, like from a texture standpoint. and that I’ve ever, ever had. So definitely we, we, our suitcases were full when we , were on returning [00:28:43] A.J. Weinzettel: Well, I can imagine, I can imagine. I, uh, you know, I might have to take your advice and bring my work laptop and stay a little bit longer. . [00:28:51] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah. Well, um, let me know when you go cause I’m gonna, uh, we’re going back like, right. It’s, it, it was a cool spot. Yeah, no, that, that would [00:29:01] A.J. Weinzettel: be, um, so in, I, I’ve had this interesting question that’s just been percolating around in my head about the corks for sparkling. [00:29:11] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Mm. [00:29:12] A.J. Weinzettel: And maybe you can help me out and give me a little bit of education here. Cause I, I, I don’t know, but it seems like the, the corks from Champaign, you know, the, the bottom of the cork seems to be super, you know, small, thin. and then like the sparkling we get here from Oregon, you pop it and it’s like, it’s like a big old mushroom. [00:29:33] A.J. Weinzettel: Mushroom or something. Mushroom. Yeah. Can, can you provide any insight on that? [00:29:38] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah. So sh most of the producers in champaign are using the double disc and so, so are we, and I can, I can pull one if you want me to, but, um, cuz I have some here, but, um, they, and there’s clearly more innovations with DIAM and mi like with the conglomerated full, you know, top to bottom right. [00:30:03] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: The reason why you’re getting the mushroom is just like the age of the cork. So how long that cork has been in that bottle, because it breaks down, you know, there’s okay. Right, right, right. Structures. It’s cellulose at the, the end of the day. You know, just structure from the bark of the oak tree. So over time it’s breaking, breaking down a little bit and compressing. [00:30:28] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So, you know, a new sparkling wine that’s just been disor, discorded and, you know, corked on, on that. It’s gonna be fresh and springy. And it honestly, if you, if you pulled that out, it would probably look brand new because if, if. Put that cork in the bottle a month ago. It’s still springy enough to, to bounce back, but the longer it sits in the bottle aged sparkling wine, which I highly recommend, um, it, it’ll keep that like real tight, thin. [00:31:03] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Structure. Okay. Um, so yeah, [00:31:07] A.J. Weinzettel: no, that, that, that’s cool. And it sounds like I’m not aging my sparkling long enough is what it sounds like to me. [00:31:12] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: you’re enjoying yourself. That’s what it sounds like to me. . Yes, yes. No, it’s, [00:31:17] A.J. Weinzettel: I’ve, I’m definitely holding onto as many bottles as I can here and there. It’s, it’s, I can’t wait to see what some organ sparkling li is like in, in 20 years. [00:31:28] A.J. Weinzettel: It’s going to be amazing. . Oh [00:31:30] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. [00:31:34] A.J. Weinzettel: Uh, and so, , you know, you’re talking about your work laptop and so you and Allison are both in ux, you know, user experience. Um, and I understand it from like Allison’s standpoint, you know, user experience. Cause I’m also in tech, right? And I understand, you know, creating that user experience, but you’re more in the, the grocery side of things. [00:31:58] A.J. Weinzettel: Uh, and you know, in high school I was in grocery as well. I, I, I would love to know what is UX in grocery? What, what [00:32:07] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: is that like? Yeah, it’s, uh, so I’m a, I’m a UX researcher within the, within the grocery, but it’s specifically on customer experience. And it might sound we weird because you, a lot of users can vary. [00:32:25] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Uh, for me it’s the user of. The, the, the app for the retailer, which is Kroger. Um, okay. Okay. And so, That within the e-com space, you can either use the app or you know, even shopping in store, like in-store customer experience is, is really key. Cuz I mean, all the way down to product freshness, right? Like, you know, when does the, the Kroger associate pick the banana for you and your pickup order? [00:32:57] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Your delivery order, or even yourself, like if you’re going in store, You’re probably looking for, you know, the yellow bananas or it depends when you’re using it. Right, right, right. Are you making banana bread that night or are you making, you know, banana pancakes tomorrow or something like, so it just depends where that, that entry point is. [00:33:18] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And I say entry point is as far as like the shopping trip. Um, So I’m trying not to be so jargony, um, for your listeners, , but, um, the biggest, the biggest goal for user researchers is to empathize with the user. Mm-hmm. and their needs. And that need can vary. Um, You know, with your accessibility or your physical differences or your modality or need state, like of the time in the moment. [00:33:49] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And so that’s the primary goal is, uh, you know, as a researcher is empathizing with them to make a product or service. that addresses that need or answers that need. So I’m just trying to think of like one instance. You know, the pandemic really accelerated a lot of these product features, especially with pickup and delivery. [00:34:14] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Right. Um, and the benefit there was time saving. You know, if you, for the working parent or the working individual, um, you don’t really have to think about it. It’s just like, I can go on my app, you know, select bananas, milk, eggs, bread, peanut butter, and it’ll be delivered by the end of the night. So, um, here where we are in the Ola Hills, I, it’s ironic cuz I don’t get delivery, we’re so far out of the radius, um, that it’s serviceable. [00:34:49] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: But we do pick up a lot and, um, , it’s saved a lot of time cuz it’s great. We’re just out and about. I can say like, oh, I’m driving past Wilsonville. Like, let’s just pick it up then, or Newberg and then we’ll get home. Right. Um, but yeah, I’m really fortunate because it’s, it’s been fun to, to work in that space and see kind of the back behind the scenes aspect of that. [00:35:13] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, yeah. No, it’s, uh, you know, so I work in the banking industry. and I’ve, uh, I’ve worked with Kroger and you know, there, there’s been some, some fun conversations I’ll say. [00:35:27] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I can imagine. So, um, yes, Kroger personal finance is a, a big one, I’m sure. But yeah, for another time. . [00:35:37] A.J. Weinzettel: Yes. So you have a lot of things going on. [00:35:41] A.J. Weinzettel: I mean, you have, you know, uh, you know, a day gig, you’re out, you know, uh, you know, making your wine, you know, you’re out going to to champaign. And yet, like when I, when I met you, uh, in November. I was like, holy cow, you’re like stacking built and like ready to . I mean, what, how in the heck do you get time to, to work out and stay so [00:36:07] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: fit? [00:36:09] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah, that’s, um, it, that’s a funny thing cuz um, it’s a, I do value. taking care of myself and my body. And um, you know, it’s just one of the things that I prioritize. And even if it’s just 20 minutes like that, that’s enough to get a, a really good, hard workout in. And, um, you know, on lunch we’ll walk down to the mailbox and back. [00:36:39] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: It’s 800 feet elevation change. So it’s enough, you know, about a mile and a half, but enough to just like get, get the blood moving and, you know, we’re sitting, we’re sitting at a desk all the time looking at a screen and it’s just like, I gotta, I gotta look away, you know, just and take my eyes off a screen for a second. [00:37:01] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And so that’s just something that I’ve always been passionate about and my, my dad has been kind of the spurt of that. And we used. To do little competitions, even when I was away at college, like, you know, where are you at these days? How many, you know, how many pushups did you do? Like we would do for January even. [00:37:22] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Like, all right, let’s do, uh, a pushup challenge every day and see, see where we can go. But um, yeah, I played, I played sports in college. Uh, I was on the varsity tennis team, and so that was one of the things that I did for a couple years on before I just said, you know what I’m. I’d rather do this on, on my own and play for fun. [00:37:42] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Um, but always doing something skiing. We were skiing last week, just trying to stay active as much as we can. Yeah, no, that’s, [00:37:50] A.J. Weinzettel: that’s good. And I go, uh, go ahead. [00:37:53] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I was just gonna say, I gotta make it to. My 50th harvest, if I can. So I gotta see that far. Yeah, yeah. No, that, [00:38:01] A.J. Weinzettel: that would be great. I know, uh, not too long ago, I’ve mentioned, you know, that I purchased a, you know, a new gravel bike. [00:38:07] A.J. Weinzettel: And you did, you, did I read that correctly? That like you’re into biking and stuff as well? Y [00:38:14] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: yeah. So, um, I, my first bike that I bought was a Cyclocross bike, and the biggest thing, the reason that I bought it was, uh, for college, but also going out to wsu. A lot of the, the roads were gravel out there, you know, outside across the Lee field, so I’m like, I need something that’s stout. [00:38:36] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: My frame’s not gonna bend, but it’s still fun to rip, right? And so bought that bike. and I still have it. Like I, I love that thing. And, um, Allison got, uh, similar cyclocross bike. She doesn’t do as much, but just more for pleasure riding, but enough to like, you know, if you hit a bump or a rock, like you don’t want that thing to kick out or bend on you. [00:39:05] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So that was the best thing about a Cyclo cross bike is they, they’re built a little bit more st early and I did a lot more mountain biking. Um, . So single, single track on Moscow Mountain. When I was in grad school, it was so close and that whole thing, it, it’s almost like bachelor, like that whole thing was devoted to mountain biking in the summer. [00:39:30] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Right. And the mountain bikes have right away. So if you’re hiking, you have to like be listening for the bikes. we would haul down right When, so it was fun. It, I, there are moose up there. Um, I never saw one, thankfully. But I remember when my, my bike got shipped cuz it was disassembled. I took it to a shop. [00:39:56] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I was like, Hey, where do we go? Um, they’re like, oh, it’s just Musk Mountain. 10 minutes from here, but, uh, just watch out for moose. And I’m, and I remember looking at my parents and I’m like, , they’re joking. And they’re like, no, we’re serious. Like, oh, I’m like, . Oh my God. Like, they’re like, yeah, you just, you either bomb it or jump off the bike and like run behind a tree. [00:40:21] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: So, wow. It, yeah. It. . I loved it. It it’s fun to, to be in, you know, like road, road biking and such. There’s, there’s a lot of un or like surprising areas that you stumble on. Yeah. So, yeah, [00:40:41] A.J. Weinzettel: no, it, it’s a blast. I’m, you know, I’m looking forward to getting out and, you know, checking out some forest service roads this summer and just seeing where the adventure goes. [00:40:50] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: How far are you usually riding, like. Uh, [00:40:55] A.J. Weinzettel: you know, uh, on the road bike, you know, there’s, I have a, um, a little route that’s about 30 miles, you know, with, you know, 1500, 2000, you know, uh, feet of elevation gain [00:41:08] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: and, uh, that’s not nothing. [00:41:11] A.J. Weinzettel: It’s not nothing but get this. So I’m, I’m sure you know Dan from Corollary, right? [00:41:15] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, yeah. Yep. [00:41:16] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Good friends. Yep. [00:41:18] A.J. Weinzettel: He, uh, he made a, a remark on that same post and he is like, well, I hope you’re gonna start doing some Elevation , and, and you have to look at some of his rides. I mean, he’ll do Warden Hill and Shahala Mountains and he’s doing like four or 5,000 feet of climbing, and I’m like, , that’s intimidating. [00:41:37] A.J. Weinzettel: I want to go riding with them. But like, um, I’m a little intimidated about. . [00:41:41] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah, I, that is a little bit intimidating. I think I’d be bringing up the rear on you guys. . [00:41:49] A.J. Weinzettel: I, I don’t know. I might, I might be walking or something. A little bit . Yeah. Oh, uh, earlier you mentioned that, you know, you came from Kentucky and, uh, I had to do some research. [00:42:03] A.J. Weinzettel: I came across a, uh, a term I had never heard before and it relates to, to bourbon and it’s smash [00:42:10] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: bills. . Okay. Yeah. And I was wondering if you were gonna say con like some Kentucky here, cuz we, we hear a lot of those random ones here and there, . [00:42:20] A.J. Weinzettel: Yes. Well, I, I grew up in Tennessee, so you know, it’s, uh, yes. Yep. [00:42:27] A.J. Weinzettel: But, uh, and understanding mash bills, the, you know, it, it sounded so what a mash bill is, cuz I had to look it up and correct me if I’m wrong, is, you know, the different, uh, , like percentages of corn and whatnot, that, that’s inside the actual bourbon. Yep. And one night you were out with friends and you’re blind tasting bourbon, and you were just calling out all these mash bills. [00:42:53] A.J. Weinzettel: Oh, I, I I just curious how, how did you figure that, I mean, was it just natural or was it practice or what? [00:43:02] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah, so the lead up to that, that night was, that was my going away night for. , beam, sun, Tori. So I did right outta grad school, actually it was middle grad school, um, an internship in their r and d department. [00:43:19] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And you know that team in the spirits industry, like they work hard, they party harder. And so, um, we, over the course, like my job, my first week there, my boss was like, Hey, can I, like, I wanna show you something, you know, you need to familiarize yourself. But she opened this door and it was just like a wall. [00:43:48] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I mean, it felt like the whiskey library. Oh wow. You walked in and it was just all of Beam, sun, Tori’s products, competitors, everything. And they’re, she’s like, I want you to taste these. And, you know, oh, so the course of the summer, you know, four months, I just said, okay, I’m gonna taste gin. Like, let’s just pull 10 gins and taste these. [00:44:15] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And so one of the projects that I was on was, Developing a spirit, a brown spirit’s like wheel or reference set for beam San Tori, among some other projects like I did Pinnacle Vodka and some QC stuff, quality control. And, um, but you’re tasting all of these bourbons every week. And so you know what the gold standards are, you know what the mash bills are. [00:44:48] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Um, and they would just say like, this is mash number four, mash number three, like whatever. And so we all had drinks this night. It was great. Went out the bar and you know, the, the whiskeys that are in beam’s portfolio go from like old crow. Which is like, you get old Crow as a shot next to your, your yellow jacket, chorus, banquet, and that’s, that is what, that is often ordered together in Kentucky. [00:45:23] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And so, but it also goes up to Booker Booker or Little Booker is the top of the line stuff that they’re getting from the, the center cut. And so after we had this night, or we’d go to. Colleague’s house and Allison’s with me, and she, I’m already like, I sh I should not be continuing the night . And they had like 10 whiskeys in front. [00:45:51] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I’m like, all right. So I started tasting wine. I’m like, maker’s Mark. And they’re, you know, I said, maker’s 46. And I’m like, old granddad. And then I started getting into like the treatments. I’m like, oh, this, this tastes like mash number four. This tastes like mash number four with some like french oak, like it hedge head, like this vanilla kind of like coconut ish finish to it, right? [00:46:19] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And they all look at each other and like, what the hell? They’re like, why you’ve, you’ve been just like holding out this whole time and just so. I was like, okay, I’m done. Like I, I need to go home . So like, I’m glad that that was the end of my internship experience to end on like a good note. Right. But also I saw like, I’m glad I’m not, I mean, respect that industry. [00:46:47] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Um, right. It could have, it could put a hurt on me. [00:46:51] A.J. Weinzettel: I, I could only imagine. I mean, it’s, uh, I, I, you know, there’s been many of nights for myself where like it’s been a hurting on me with just wine. I can’t even imagine. With, uh, you know, you know, with bourbon and whiskey just [00:47:05] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: oof you, you definitely have to respect it. [00:47:08] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Um, and it’s, it’s so hard tasting a white dog, like too straight off the still, but as it’s running cuz you know, huge respect for those, those guys that are doing that to make those press the cuts. So they’re doing it by density with just like a hydrometer to see where, where things are and they’re smelling it and such. [00:47:28] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: But, um, At that scale. It’s, it’s crazy. Yeah. It, it’s so crazy. Um, I, I can, I can only imagine. . I got a fun spot, you know about bourbon. I think at the time, it might have been last year, two years ago, there were two barrels of bourbon for every person in the state of Kentucky. And Kentucky’s real small, but I was like, man, there’s a lot of bourbon being produced. [00:47:54] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Holy cow. . Yeah. Wow. That [00:47:59] A.J. Weinzettel: is a lot of bourbon. Um, . So, you know, we talked about Dan a little bit. Are there, do you have any, any stories of the Oregon wine community in general that just stand out to you of how collaborative and like everybody just kind of helps out one another? [00:48:17] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah. And I’m glad you, you asked this question again cuz I never heard, I didn’t touch on it in the, the champagne topic, um, we were talking about, but the, the Willamette Valley has been, [00:48:30] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Immensely supportive. Like incredibly supportive. And two stories, like the first story I’ll say is related to our 2021 vintage. Mm-hmm. and I had called my Sparkling Pics. This is a Friday. I think I, I was like, I called my pics. They’re ready. I had six tons of fruit coming. And which for us that, that, that’s a lot. [00:49:02] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Like we’re, we’re small still and fire up the press at Bjornsen and the press blows, like the vacuum pump blows. And I was just like, oh shit. Like, I, I thought I broke something. Like some, something went wrong and it, no, it was just an old press and it, it blew and I was just like, ugh. Like I’m, I was freaking out. [00:49:29] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Right, right. Because like the pit crew’s done, the grapes were ready, like we’re go time. So I sent out a frantic email and I, I wrote to John Grok, Tama. . Um, who else did I write to? I mean, those guys were the two that responded like instantly and said, bring your grapes. Like we, we got you. And I, I was just so like I. [00:49:57] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I all, I mean emotionally, it like hit me so hard cuz I was just like, wow, this is unbelievable. Like, I don’t know any other place that would just let you pull up. Not like, I didn’t know John at the time, like I knew of John, but Right. Um, I never met him in person and so to meet on such circumstances and same with Tama, like, um, [00:50:23] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I was just like, wow, I love, I love these, this place. You know? It just further, uh, affirmed, you know, you know, or confirmed to us why we’re here, you know, and Tama for mentioned in that email, like, all of us are benefiting, you know, all ships are rising with the tide. And so for. Kind of like response, right? [00:50:50] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I, I, I loved it, you know, and so that, that sticks with me to this day in terms of, um, us still being successful, you know, is because of other people’s success and the other people, you know, this other story that I wanna mention is Dan and Gene, like, , they’re doing incredible things. And um, I was intimidated. [00:51:11] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And Alison too, like we were both intimidated to meet them for the first time and so we really hit it off. Um, and they’ve been become really close friends to us and mentors almost like we’re just, we’ve got a camaraderie. And, um, a couple weeks ago we were tasting base wines together, um, with. Dave and Lois Cho as well. [00:51:33] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah, and it was just, it was really cool to, to share those insights together. And, um, did, did even just like share brunch afterwards, like we just kick kicked the tires and. Opened up some great wine and shared some good stories. So, um, yeah. Excited to be, be in cahoots with those guys. [00:51:55] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. No, I, I saw the, the, the pictures of that, that was, that looked pretty [00:51:58] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: amazing. [00:51:59] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yeah. Yeah. No, they’re, they’re doing some cool stuff and there’s some excited things coming from them. Yeah. [00:52:05] A.J. Weinzettel: Big time. Yeah. Um, so currently you have a pinot and a Shd, [00:52:12] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: right? for sparkling or still? No, no, [00:52:17] A.J. Weinzettel: just right now. Right now you have, you know, a a a still Chardonnay and a still Pinot Noir. Yep. And then in the fall of 2023, you’re gonna come out with your first sparkling? [00:52:31] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Yep, we are. Yeah. So we’re gonna do, we’re still working out the details, but we’re shooting for October 1st. the sparkling release. Um, and we’ll do a release party. So it should be, it should be a good time. Um, and we’re excited about that. Uh, yeah, finally to, to get our, our sparkling out and it, it’s, I discord some, a couple weeks ago and, uh, it’s shown pretty well. [00:52:58] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And this was the one I, I shared with the, the guys from the vineyards, from Champaign. . Um, we will, we’re gonna hold some back to do extended karaage just to see how it evolves, but for all, for all the wines, like I’m trying to dis scourge quarterly just to know where they are. It’s fun to pop some bottles. [00:53:20] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Of course, [00:53:21] A.J. Weinzettel: of course, is, is so, is a long, long term to be a hundred percent sparkling. [00:53:28] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: We will be 95%. Okay. Um, . The reason why I say 95 is that I, I do have a kind of passion for Chardonnay, still chardon, and we have a really good source of pinot noir from Sojo. Um, great. So we, we entered into long term contract with them, Denny and. [00:53:53] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: uh, you know, believe in that site and there’s some good producers out there that it’s for stills, pinot noir, like that’s an amazing site. And so much like the grower champagnes do, like the small grower producers, you know, we, we also want to emulate that model as far as be sparkling forward, but still have small, super small production as far as still wines. [00:54:17] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: And that’s, that’s kind of analogous to their Kato cwa. Still lines that they have the Rouge or the blanc, um, right. That they’re producing now because climate change is enabling that, so. Wow. Yeah. No, that’s, that is awesome. [00:54:34] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah. Well, I, I don’t have any more questions. Is there something that you would like to bring up or did I miss anything? [00:54:40] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: I mean, I would just say thank you again, you know, for this opportunity. It’s been fun to chat and I. . I mean, I think we need to meet up and share some sparkling together at some point, and I, yeah, I think it, it’d be a fun time to have that conversation again. Yeah. No, I, I totally [00:54:57] A.J. Weinzettel: agree. That would be amazing. [00:54:59] A.J. Weinzettel: Yeah, that would be great. Thank you AJ for this. Yeah, no, thank you. I appreciate all your time and, uh, I can’t wait till, uh, October and, you know, be able to be up at your, uh, at your release [00:55:10] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: party. No. Excited to see you out there. Yep. [00:55:14] A.J. Weinzettel: Okay. Awesome. [00:55:15] Kenny McMahon of Arabilis Wines: Well, thank you so much. Yeah, thanks aj. Take care.